Hi,
So I've found the proper area on the forum to post about sicknesses. Well I've been treating my tank for 4 days now with a raised temp of 86F with 1-2 tablespoon of salt for every 5 gallons. I've also added melafix and pimafix together in the tank with the recomended dosages. Throughout this treatment I didn't notice a change at all. the spots are still on him and new spots actually appeared. Also now not only my Abei has it but my Oto has it aswel.. One other note is that the spots that were on him at first are still there they didnt tall off yet. Now i'm thinking of using medications rather than this treatment. Should I wait it out now? its already been 4 days without improvement. Or should i get some medication and treat it? also what is the safest ich medication for puffers? thanks alot
Resistant Strain Of ICH???
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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lilgirlkat
- Green Spotted Puffer
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 1:38 am
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
I'm going through the same thing. I've been treating since Sunday, and I've only noticed more spots, not fewer.. Perhaps that's just the way it goes? It might be too early still.
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
Really? so are you going to continue the salt and heat? I guess I will continue it for 10 days and see if it improves. if not then i guess i would have to use meds right
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lilgirlkat
- Green Spotted Puffer
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 1:38 am
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
I'm going to continue the salt treatment..
You're doing 50% water changes every other day, replacing the salt as you replace the water, right?
I really prefer not to use any chemicals in my tank. Especially with my puffs. I just don't trust them.
You're doing 50% water changes every other day, replacing the salt as you replace the water, right?
I really prefer not to use any chemicals in my tank. Especially with my puffs. I just don't trust them.
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
actually i didnt do any water changes.. am i supposed to 0 ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate... i thought that the heat and salt will kil the free swimming ich even if i dont remove the pouch that drops..
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Myaj
- Tech Team
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- My Puffers: Bubba, turgidus
Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
The life cycle of the ich parasite is potentially FOUR WEEKS.
You don't just dose with salt and raise the temp for a few days and expect it to be gone. You have to wait for all the eggs that are already laid to hatch, all of the adult parasites to lay their new eggs and then for those eggs to hatch, any that survived the initial exposure to go through their life cycle again, etc etc. The salt and heat can only kill the parasite at a certain point in its life cycle, so you have to continue the treatment until every egg has hatched out and grown to the right point.
Raising the temperature speeds up the process a bit, but four weeks is considered "safe".
The article says that raising the temp can speed up the life cycle to 3 days, but in general, most people continue to treat for 2-4 weeks from the last visible sign of any ich parasite, and those that don't often experience it comes right back.
You don't just dose with salt and raise the temp for a few days and expect it to be gone. You have to wait for all the eggs that are already laid to hatch, all of the adult parasites to lay their new eggs and then for those eggs to hatch, any that survived the initial exposure to go through their life cycle again, etc etc. The salt and heat can only kill the parasite at a certain point in its life cycle, so you have to continue the treatment until every egg has hatched out and grown to the right point.
Raising the temperature speeds up the process a bit, but four weeks is considered "safe".
The article says that raising the temp can speed up the life cycle to 3 days, but in general, most people continue to treat for 2-4 weeks from the last visible sign of any ich parasite, and those that don't often experience it comes right back.
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
wow. could fish tolerate this temp of 86F for a month? I guess ill just wait it out for a month to see what happens
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Myaj
- Tech Team
- Posts: 4587
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:27 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Bubba, turgidus
Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
Probably not, but it will depend on each fish.
I'd worry more about the salt treatment for the entire 4 weeks and just use the heat to "boost" it at first, and back off on the heat if the fish seem stressed.
I'd worry more about the salt treatment for the entire 4 weeks and just use the heat to "boost" it at first, and back off on the heat if the fish seem stressed.
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lilgirlkat
- Green Spotted Puffer
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 1:38 am
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
and -- you should be doing a thorough gravel vacuuming and 50% water change every other day to be getting rid of the parasites and what not.. How will they go away if they're still sitting in your tank?
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
I cant gravel vac. i have eco complete its like dirt.. everything comes up if you vac it.. i thought that the free swimming ich will die from salt and heat above 85F. so even if the white grain drops and i dont vac it.. once it hatches.. the free swimming ich will die from heat and salt.. thats why i didnt think i needed to change water..
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lilgirlkat
- Green Spotted Puffer
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 1:38 am
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
ahh.. I've got gravel...
from what I've read it's very important to be doing those wc.. it helps to get rid of the parasites.. someone that has been through this already, correct me if I'm wrong.. that's just what my research has lead me to believe.
from what I've read it's very important to be doing those wc.. it helps to get rid of the parasites.. someone that has been through this already, correct me if I'm wrong.. that's just what my research has lead me to believe.
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LilGreenPuffer
- Former Staff Member
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RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond. - Location (country): United States
- Location: Kentucky
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
There's a thread you should read, titled something like "Elvis and ich - it won't go away." Elvis just got over ich and has been removed from hypo. That thread would probably help.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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Dadof4
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- Location (country): United States
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Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
Hypo is used for SW Ich only. Salt and increasing the temp are the best in FW.
"Darwin swings...annnnnnd a miss. Boy Jim, Chuck's suffered at the plate tonight. He's 0 for 3 and I'm not sure he's recovered from that shoulder pull a few weeks ago. I'll bet the front office is re-thinking that contract."
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
Ok I just did a large 50% water change today and i will be doing 25% water changes every second day.. i try to vac the eco complete but it just sucks everything up.. so i hope the water changes will help thanks for the advice
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LilGreenPuffer
- Former Staff Member
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- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)
RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond. - Location (country): United States
- Location: Kentucky
Re: Resistant Strain Of ICH???
Ahhh. Thanks. I was a bit confused on that.Dadof4 wrote:Hypo is used for SW Ich only. Salt and increasing the temp are the best in FW.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!