Bollo my SAP is not looking good :(

[puffertt77]

Hey Guys

First off here's my test results
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates ? (cannot find my test kit anywhere!)
PH 8

I looked in my tank today to find Bollo not moving in the corner on the gravel with a few bits of dead plant on him, I thought he was dead but is gills were slowley moving. The only time I've ever seen him like this was when I had to move all my fish to the 12g when I blew my heater. I found out then that it was because there wasn't enough oxygen in the water. Remembering this I picked Bollo up and placed him on the bubble stick. It's strange because he's been fine until tonight.

I decided to do a 90% water change incase the Nitrates were high and I only filled the tank up to half way so that there should now be twice as much oxygen in the water as before

I've also put an extra air stone right next to Bollo which is getting air from my other air pump on the DP and Frogfish tanks

Am I right in thinking that there will be more oxygen in the water by halfing the water ammount but still pumping in as much as before (well more than before with the extra air stone by Bollo)?

Or can water only hold so much oxygen?

Either way I thouhgt it must be better to have more oxygen being pumped into less water


I just had another look at him and I'm sure he'd stopped breathing!

I picked him up and he didn't move so I held him over the air stone and he wriggled a little and swam out of my hand, he's now resxting in the cave which is probably the best place for him as he won't be disturbed. I've put the air stone in there with him

bollo.JPG

tank.JPG

[yunachin]

Holding him facing a pump can force oxygen into his gills and help him breathe better than placing him on an airstone. Do you know why the nitrates where high? I would try to find the strips and get a number if you could.

[puffertt77]

Holding him facing a pump can force oxygen into his gills and help him breathe better than placing him on an airstone. Do you know why the nitrates where high? I would try to find the strips and get a number if you could.

Hey yuninach

Thanks for replying

I'm not sure if the Nitrates are high I just did a big WC just in case they were. The last time I checked them they were fine (but that was last weekend)

I'm going to my LFS in the morning and will be gewtting an extra air pump for the tank and I'll add 2 more 12inch ari bubble sticks

The last time this happened I held him over the bubble stick and after 20mins he came round and was swimming. This time his still laying there so like you've suggested I'm going to pick him up and hold him over the bubble stick again

I'll let you know how he does

Thanks again

[Irisis]

Okay, I'm pretty sure this is correct, but you may want to double check.

I seem to remember from chemistry (4 years ago though ) that the reason water can become oxygenated is because of the weak hydrogen bonds. Cold water can hold more oxygen than hot water since the molecules move less and so the oxygen can stay trapped by the bonds.

So it might be worth looking at the temperature of the water and possibly lowering it.

As for lowering the water level, I'm not sure it will make an amazing amount of difference. Yes, water can become oxygenated, but I would guess there is only so much it can hold. Again, may want to double check that one.

I hope Bollo gets better soon

[LilGreenPuffer]

Are you sure that low oxygen is the cause? Is there anything else you can think of?

[marksrush]

How is your filter working with the water level in your tank so low? If it's not, you might want to consider filling the tank back up, because if the filter is not able to work, then you're losing a major source of water circulation - and water movement (especially at the surface) is a major factor in keeping water oxygenated. A small airstone in a tank that big will not accomplish much of anything. Also, filling the tank back up will help oxygenate the water at least temporarily, since there's a lot of aeration going on as you're filling the bucket from the tap and then pouring it into the tank.

I'm with LilGreenPuffer in wondering if something else might be going on here. Any recent changes to the tank, as in new tankmates or new medications, water conditioners, or some other chemical?

[Dadof4]

One thing to do would be to test your tap water to see if there is any high ammonia or nitrate levels. If there's not, use a clean container with fresh clear same temperature water, an air stone and a power head (be sure to shield the in take!) so there is some good circulation. Put him in there and if he perks up over the next hour or so, there is a problem in the tank....This helps pin down if it is a tank issue or a illness issue.

[Josh88]

I'd heavily suggest more flow,like a power head pointed towards the surface for tons of surface agitation and have the power head suck in some air from an airtube that is partially restricted(sucks enough air but not enough to choke the pump). It will make a ton of bubbles,
won't be pretty but will do much better than an airstone.

[puffertt77]

Thanks to everyone that's replied guys

Are you sure that low oxygen is the cause? Is there anything else you can think of?

Hey LilGreenPuffer
Nothings changed on my tank, I did get some more Guppy's but that was maybe 1.5/2 weeks ago. I thought this is maybe why there's less oxygen as there's more fish, saying that though he's been fine for over a week with the extra fish. I did find the remains of a fish last night floating on the surface, I have noticed before when a fish dies for what ever reason the other fish will nip at it, maybe he ate some of the dead fish and it's made him ill?!

How is your filter working with the water level in your tank so low? If it's not, you might want to consider filling the tank back up, because if the filter is not able to work, then you're losing a major source of water circulation - and water movement (especially at the surface) is a major factor in keeping water oxygenated. A small airstone in a tank that big will not accomplish much of anything. Also, filling the tank back up will help oxygenate the water at least temporarily, since there's a lot of aeration going on as you're filling the bucket from the tap and then pouring it into the tank.
I'm with LilGreenPuffer in wondering if something else might be going on here. Any recent changes to the tank, as in new tankmates or new medications, water conditioners, or some other chemical?

Hey marksrush
My filter is working ok as the intake pipe is long enough to still be under the water so it's still circlating the water ok. I have a 12 inch bubble stick, a 6 inch bubble stick and a small air stone pumping air into the water. The 2 bubble sticks create a lot of water movement so there's plenty of flow around the tank

One thing to do would be to test your tap water to see if there is any high ammonia or nitrate levels. If there's not, use a clean container with fresh clear same temperature water, an air stone and a power head (be sure to shield the in take!) so there is some good circulation. Put him in there and if he perks up over the next hour or so, there is a problem in the tank....This helps pin down if it is a tank issue or a illness issue.

Hey Dadof4
He's moved to the front of the tank this morning but is still laying there but is breathing slowly, I did see his eye move which is good as before it was as if he couldn't see he would just swim forward into something and not try and go round it. I'm going to try what you suggested and put him in another container with fresh de-clorinated water. As for my tap water and the water in the tank, both have no ammonia in them. One thing I never mentioned before is that on friday he was very plump and looked really well (not just a round full belly, he looked bigger/fatter overall). Now he looks quite skinny again!

I'll put him in the container now and I'll let you know how he is in a few hours

Thanks again

[puffertt77]

Bollo's been in the container for about 5hrs now, I noticed him swimming full pelt against the bottom of the container. He's also been laying on his side! I put my hand in there to make sure he hadn't died and he started moving around. Ithen left him for about 10mins and he's laying on his side again

I hate seeing him like this, I just want him to be his normal zoomy, chirpy, scatty self

I'm going to leave him in the container and keep checking him every hour, the water in there is fresh and he has an airstone so it's the best place for him really

Thanks Dadof4 for the idea

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I noticed that Bollo's got a faint thin red line between the end of his body and the base of his tail fin. Not sure if it is anything but it's def a lite pinky red

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[Dadof4]

Can you get a close up of the line? Does it look like it's a parasite, a string coming from him?

Oh, and I don't think I have to remind you but I will....make sure you are changing out he water in the container every few hours or so to avoid ammonia build up.

[Bogwoodbruce]

To be honest im very worried by the fact that you did a 90% waterchange! Did you at least declorinate it? That will seriously knock your filterbacteria and chill your tank out!

I cant help but wonder if he was just having an off day ive found the same with larger cichlids and catfish. To be honest im wondering if all this was un-nessisary. Just my opinion.

[LilGreenPuffer]

Bruce, I think you're the only one here who doesn't dechlorinate your tap water. Also, there's nothing wrong with a 90% w/c, as only 10% of the nitrifying bacteria lives in the water, while 90% is in the substrate and clinging to the decor. Puffertt77 has removed about 8-9% of his biological filter, and an established tank has about 2x the bacteria that it *needs* to get by.

And does lying on his side and not moving for two days sound like an "off day" to you?

[Bogwoodbruce]

Bruce, I think you're the only one here who doesn't dechlorinate your tap water. Also, there's nothing wrong with a 90% w/c, as only 10% of the nitrifying bacteria lives in the water, while 90% is in the substrate and clinging to the decor. Puffertt77 has removed about 8-9% of his biological filter, and an established tank has about 2x the bacteria that it *needs* to get by.

And does lying on his side and not moving for two days sound like an "off day" to you?

Not just the fact of clorine but tempreture, dont forget about temp shock, that can kill fish on its own! I would never do a 90% or recommend it, i wouldnt want to do more than a 50% at once. Its better to do it over a period of a few days. I mean dont forget nitrates lock themselves into decor, substrate, ornaments everything, so doing a large waterchange will help yes but it will still just leech back out better to do say 3x25% over 3 days somthing like that. And just becuase i dont decloinate doesnt make me a bad fishkeeper, ive never done it although i did use a declorinator unit similar to R.O. We dont at work, my college who went to sparsholt and came out with the highest grade and my boss whos been doing it for 40yrs and a arge portion of our customer base doesnt either doesnt make me a bad fishkeeper.

Although like i said if i do over 50% i declorinate then but using the shower head feature in your hosepipe helps as it agiates the water and helps get rid of clorine as its a gas

[LilGreenPuffer]

Bruce, I think you're the only one here who doesn't dechlorinate your tap water. Also, there's nothing wrong with a 90% w/c, as only 10% of the nitrifying bacteria lives in the water, while 90% is in the substrate and clinging to the decor. Puffertt77 has removed about 8-9% of his biological filter, and an established tank has about 2x the bacteria that it *needs* to get by.

And does lying on his side and not moving for two days sound like an "off day" to you?

Not just the fact of clorine but tempreture, dont forget about temp shock, that can kill fish on its own!

Well, if you match the temperature, it's not a problem. As for the rest, never mind. Peace?