Discus Lockjaw?

[PufferGrrl]

I know my discus isn't a puffer, but I've received great help from this forum quite a bit, so I thought I'd put this out here if anyone might have any suggestions. I have 3 discus and have had them for about a year now. One of my discus has developed what looks like lockjaw (jaw stuck open). I've been feeding a diet of mostly mysis shrimp. I recently added beefheart because I've read from reputable breeders that this is good for them (I know there's been some debate on this), but I thought it's out there as a fish food and has been recommended specifically for them, so it can't hurt. Well, it's about a week after I've altered their diet, and tonight I noticed one of my discus with the lockjaw problem. The area by his jaw also looks a little red. I'm not sure if he ran into the wall or what, or if it's swollen and this is something like a bruise? I'm stumped. I know that with puffers krill can lead to lockjaw, however my discus never get krill. If anything they would only get mysis shrimp with occasional bloodworms. If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions please let me know. Water params are normal (ie ammo = 0, nitrites = 0, nitrates = around 10. I do 50% water changes weekly. Heat is at about 84 because the discus require warmer temps. I bring their ph just below 7 (6.6 - 6.8..). There are 3 discus and 3 black neon tetras, 55 gallon tank. Also, they are fed once a day.

Thanks..

[Pufferpunk]

Sounds like his jaw is broken or dislocated.

Any fish Qs are welcome at this forum.

[PufferGrrl]

Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking. They sometimes get scared when the lights either turn on or someone walks by too fast, they're just nervous fish I think. I'm thinking maybe he ran into a wall or jumped and hit the ceiling of his tank. I noticed the redness and I really don't remember seeing that there before. I found somewhere else that if it's "normal" lockjaw it might correct itself within a couple days, otherwise I'm probably out of luck I'm guessing? I would imagine their jaw structure is pretty fragile, but I've never had this happen to me. I've read that some people have tube fed other types of fish, whether with a syringe or otherwise if/when this has happened. I'm not sure that this would be my best solution with this fish since I think the stress of being netted would cause them further difficulties. I'm not sure. I think the best I can do at this point is wait and see if it heals itself.

Thank you for your help.

[puffertt77]

Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking. They sometimes get scared when the lights either turn on or someone walks by too fast, they're just nervous fish I think. I'm thinking maybe he ran into a wall or jumped and hit the ceiling of his tank. I noticed the redness and I really don't remember seeing that there before. I found somewhere else that if it's "normal" lockjaw it might correct itself within a couple days, otherwise I'm probably out of luck I'm guessing? I would imagine their jaw structure is pretty fragile, but I've never had this happen to me. I've read that some people have tube fed other types of fish, whether with a syringe or otherwise if/when this has happened. I'm not sure that this would be my best solution with this fish since I think the stress of being netted would cause them further difficulties. I'm not sure. I think the best I can do at this point is wait and see if it heals itself.

Thank you for your help.

Hey PufferGrrl

Rather than use a net I've found it easier to catch larger fish in a plastic tub as they don't get all caught up if they struggle. You can just fill it with water then come up from underneath the fish (you prob know this but hey)

[PufferGrrl]

I think my plan is going to be to wait a couple days to see if there's improvement, but if there's not I'm not quite sure what to do. I'm still thinking he has some some sort of injury, and one of the other discus has seemed more scared than usual. I'm not sure if he would realize that his other tankmate is injured and is afraid, or what's going on. I retested the water and everything is still fine, and I did another water change just as a precaution. I'm not sure how I would go about force feeding these guys. They don't seem like they'd be very easy to get a grip on, they just seem more delicate. The injured one is a bit smaller, about 3 - 4" I'd estimate. We'll see how they do!

Thanks for your input.

[puffertt77]

I think my plan is going to be to wait a couple days to see if there's improvement, but if there's not I'm not quite sure what to do. I'm still thinking he has some some sort of injury, and one of the other discus has seemed more scared than usual. I'm not sure if he would realize that his other tankmate is injured and is afraid, or what's going on. I retested the water and everything is still fine, and I did another water change just as a precaution. I'm not sure how I would go about force feeding these guys. They don't seem like they'd be very easy to get a grip on, they just seem more delicate. The injured one is a bit smaller, about 3 - 4" I'd estimate. We'll see how they do!

Thanks for your input.

I know that Clove Oil knocks out a South American Puffer, I think the dose is 1 drop per liter. Perhaps you could do this to your Discus and stick a tube down his throat and squirt the food directly into his stomach

Also if I were you I'd quickly join a Discus Forum if you haven't already and ask them for some advise

[PufferGrrl]

Thanks for the advice, however I'm a little afraid to use clove oil just for sedation, just because I know it can kill them. Also, with feeding on a daily basis, I don't think I'd want to knock them out every day to feed them. I tried joining what looked like a discus forum, but they seem to have blocked people from signing up based on e-mail? I've never joined there, and would not be one to abuse something like that, but I'm not allowed to sign up there, so I've also posted on another general fish keeping to see what other types of advice I can get.

Thanks again..

[edmlfc1]

You can use finquel daily if you need to force feed. Also with porc puffer's there has been someone that cured lock jaw with vitamin b12. If you can get pure vitamin b12 and soak their food in it, it may help. Another vitamin that's good is beta glucan. Beta glucan will boost the immune system and help the fish heal faster.

[puffertt77]

Thanks for the advice, however I'm a little afraid to use clove oil just for sedation, just because I know it can kill them. Also, with feeding on a daily basis, I don't think I'd want to knock them out every day to feed them. I tried joining what looked like a discus forum, but they seem to have blocked people from signing up based on e-mail? I've never joined there, and would not be one to abuse something like that, but I'm not allowed to sign up there, so I've also posted on another general fish keeping to see what other types of advice I can get.

Thanks again..

Join this forum
http://www.forum.ukdiscus.co.uk/forums.html

[Pufferpunk]

I've put the word out to a couple of discus experts I know.

[PufferGrrl]

Thanks. I really appreciate it. I just hate to see something bad happen to him/her because he/she got scared and ran into the wall (I'm guessing that's what must have happened). Thanks for everyone's help. I've signed up for the other discus forum as well (they block gmail addresses apparently, but I found a workaround). Thanks!

[PufferGrrl]

Just an update. Someone on another forum had said maybe he got a piece of gravel lodged in his mouth, but that I should anesthetize him before checking this. Well, I managed to just hold him in one spot in the tank with a net to look, and I don't see anything, it doesn't help that his gravel is natural colored, so it's not like I'd see a big piece of bright colored gravel if it was there. Anyway, after I let him go out of the net he took off to the other side of the tank, and his mouth is moving a little bit. Still not closing completely, but more than it was. There was no movement at all before. Maybe in jetting to the other side something shifted in his jaw? He didn't run into anything on his way over there, so I'm not sure, but just wanted to put the update out there.

[Pufferpunk]

Dislocated?

[PufferGrrl]

No, his jaw still seems to be "in line," it's just as if the main position is open wide, and he maybe was able to close it 25% of the way. So, I'm thinking he's still back where he started. I'm thinking maybe it's something along the lines of TMJ in humans? Just thinking of possible ideas... not sure.

[PufferGrrl]

I took a video of him so you can see what I mean. His mouth just isn't closing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI-0EtLLrgg