SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by puffertt77 »

Just thought I'd get in there before anyone else does...

NO I'M NOT OFF MY TREE :)

I just read back to myself my last post here and it sounds like I'm on mushrooms or something :lol:
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by Myaj »

I would put all bets on your water quality. My turgidus gets skin sores (start off as pits in his skin, then fill in with white as they heal up) if his nitrates go over 20, in nitrates of 40 he'd be miserably unhappy. Not to mention the nitrites. Sounds like yours had sores and one of them has some fungal infection going on.. ich would be all over their bodies. Pimafix is good for fungal issues.

Lots of water changes, you need to get that water quality better. Melafix and pimafix combined with clean water should be all you need.

If they have any trouble with the Mel/Pimafix, it will probably be due to breathing issues or possibly skin irritation, so just pay attention and do a water change if you need to to dilute it. Usually it doesn't bother puffers too much but sometimes bettas and goldfish don't like Melafix.
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by puffertt77 »

Myaj wrote:I would put all bets on your water quality. My turgidus gets skin sores (start off as pits in his skin, then fill in with white as they heal up) if his nitrates go over 20, in nitrates of 40 he'd be miserably unhappy. Not to mention the nitrites. Sounds like yours had sores and one of them has some fungal infection going on.. ich would be all over their bodies. Pimafix is good for fungal issues.

Lots of water changes, you need to get that water quality better. Melafix and pimafix combined with clean water should be all you need.

If they have any trouble with the Mel/Pimafix, it will probably be due to breathing issues or possibly skin irritation, so just pay attention and do a water change if you need to to dilute it. Usually it doesn't bother puffers too much but sometimes bettas and goldfish don't like Melafix.

Thanks Myaj

You've explained exactly what Bollo the SAP had on his back

I've added the 2nd lot of meds today, Bollo is wizzing round and looks happier than he was, Naboo is also looking good

I'll be doing water changes every day, I'll add the meds after I've done the water changes though otherwise I'm just throwing the meds away :)

All my other fish are OK with it aswell, although I did find 1 dead female Guppy this morning :(

Like I said before all the fishes colours get really bright and intense, has anyone noticed that before when they've used Melafix and Pimafix?
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

There's actually a post about that right now. Yes, others have noticed that. Stress reduction leads to brighter, healthier-looking fish.
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by puffertt77 »

I did a massive water change this morning and now have

ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20
PH 7.8/8

I also added Aquarium salt to the water

And I planted 125 plants in my tank aswell :) took a while but now all my fish are looking great, loads of places to explore

Bollo's looking really happy again and the colour is starting to come back where the sore was (not quite gone yet but looking good)

Would you believe it, all those plants and Naboo's trying to swim into the picture of plants on the back of the tank lol
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Good to hear! Naboo sounds cute. :)
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by Myaj »

Nice!

The nitrates are still kind of high for a puffer, but that's a huge improvement. Have you tested if you have nitrates in your tap water?
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by puffertt77 »

Myaj wrote:Nice!

The nitrates are still kind of high for a puffer, but that's a huge improvement. Have you tested if you have nitrates in your tap water?
I've just got a glass of water and tested it and it says:-

Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40 !
PH 8.6/9 !

So I'm always going to be putting in high Nitrates when I do a water change!

How do I get round this?

Or do I just leave it to the filter?

Also PH is very high!
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by Myaj »

A high pH is okay, don't worry about that. Mines higher :) Its better to let the fish adjust to it than try to change it with chemicals.

Crap, 40 nitrates out of the tap, now that does suck. What I"m trying to figure out, is how did you get the tank down to 20, if you have 40 coming out of the tap?? Can you take a sample into a fish store and have them check it, there possibly could be something goofy with your test kit (expired?).

If you really do have 40 nitrates out of the tap, I hate to say it but you might want to give up on keeping fish, at least as long as you're on that water source. Otherwise, you'll be looking at specialty filters or buying water filtered water, which can get to be expensive and a PITA. That's why I'm really suggesting you double check your tap water with someone else's test kit.
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by puffertt77 »

Myaj wrote:A high pH is okay, don't worry about that. Mines higher :) Its better to let the fish adjust to it than try to change it with chemicals.

Crap, 40 nitrates out of the tap, now that does suck. What I"m trying to figure out, is how did you get the tank down to 20, if you have 40 coming out of the tap?? Can you take a sample into a fish store and have them check it, there possibly could be something goofy with your test kit (expired?).

If you really do have 40 nitrates out of the tap, I hate to say it but you might want to give up on keeping fish, at least as long as you're on that water source. Otherwise, you'll be looking at specialty filters or buying water filtered water, which can get to be expensive and a PITA. That's why I'm really suggesting you double check your tap water with someone else's test kit.
I'll take some tap water and some water from the tank and get them to test for everything in both

I left the Tank for about 12hrs after the water change before I tested it, could the filter have done it's job and removed some of the Nitrate in the water to get it down to 20?

I suppose we cannot answer any questions until I get the water tested properly

I use Nitrite and Nitrate Test Strips but I have read that some people think they're not very good and that it's better to use liquid tests

What do you recommend Myaj?
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by Myaj »

There are only two things (for the average fishkeeper) that will remove nitrates, live plants and/or dilution with water changes. The filter only helps change ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates.

I don't think the plants would have made that big of a difference, that fast, honestly.
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by puffertt77 »

Myaj wrote:There are only two things (for the average fishkeeper) that will remove nitrates, live plants and/or dilution with water changes. The filter only helps change ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates.

I don't think the plants would have made that big of a difference, that fast, honestly.
I don't know why it was down to 20 from 40 then?!

It defenatly was though

I must have 130 plants in the tank now so hopefully they'll start to help

I'll let you know how the water tests go tomorrow
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Re: SAP has 1 white spot and 3 little pit holes on his back

Post by Nick »

I think nitrate source can be as important as nitrate count when it comes to how much the bother fish. 40 is definately high to start out with, but, that is from the tap, so it's not nearly as nasty as water from a fish tank that reads 40 nitrates, where there are TONS of nasty dissolved organics you can't measure, but use nitrate as a benchmark for. Watch closely and see how the nitrates effect your fish out of the tap vs in old water.
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