Annabelle IP's (From Tapeworms to Camallanus worms)

[Dadof4]

I think you're correct, the infestation seems to be tinning. How many more days of treatment?

[edmlfc1]

I have to find my notes but you put the
Step 1)first treatment in for 3-4 days (can't remember) then do an 80% water change.
Step 2)Retreat wait one week do another 80% water change.
You can do this for two more doses if necessary repeat step 2. After you are complete add carbon.

[Pufferpunk]

Are those just hanging around her anus or in her entire digetive syetem? Sorry, I haven't had time to read that article.

[edmlfc1]

Are those just hanging around her anus or in her entire digetive syetem? Sorry, I haven't had time to read that article.

From what I understand once it starts to show in the anus as you see in the picture, it's all in her intestines. The only signs you see from this worm is when it shows to show hanging out of the anus. It takes about 2-3 months for this to show.

[edmlfc1]

Forgot to metion, the reason they are red is because they attach to the intestines and feed on the fishes blood. If you try to pull them out with tweezers you will damage the intestines. Basically they cannot be removed by any means. You have to treat to kill.

[Pufferpunk]

Do you think they came with the tapeworm? Do they usually go together?

[edmlfc1]

I don't think they are connected. I believe that maybe the tapworm may have caused her immune system to weaken and maybe she couldn't fight off these worms or vise versa. I have been doing so much research and noone else that has had these worms mentioned tapeworms.

[edmlfc1]

I emailed Charles Harrison this morning with an update and a few questions.
My email:

I took a few days off work and started the treatment for the Camallanus worms yesterday.
I have to say I was scared to death how she would react to the medication. I mixed it in a cup of water
and added 1/4 cup at a time to her tank in 30 minute intervals. After watching her for about 12 hours
last night she seemed to handling it well. I tried to feed her last night and she refused to eat.
This morning she was in the corner waiting for breakfast. I fed her but she only ate about 1/2
of what she would normally eat. About an hour later I went to check on her and she was
chasing a ghost shrimp. I set up a 10g just in case I had to move her out, it looks like I can
take it down today. I'm so happy she's doing good. I also added the treatment to my community
tank, everyone in there seems to be doing fine also.

How long before I see results? Her vent dosen't look wide open today like it did two days ago.
Does it work that fast? I can get a picture if you need one.

I'm not planning to treat my saltwater tank unless you think it's a good idea. I've been checking the
saltwater fish everyday and so far I don't see any signs of this worm. I know it may take a few
months to show but I don't want to treat them if I don't have too.

Here is his response:

My, my such devotion!
Likely as not you won't see much change over a few days. Yes,
the medication acts within 6 to 8 hours to paralyze the worms. The
death of the Nematode depends on the strength of the dose and
duration. Holding the worm fixed causes it to stop respiration and
eventually deprived of Oxygen and nutrition it dies. So, the amount
of killing medication is extremely important in that we don't want
anything to survive and grow stronger from the treatment. Next time
through, there may not be some medication which will work.

You might imagine what is going on inside her intestines. Dead worms
need to be expelled or digested. Depending on where they are along
the way, they might just be thrust through the intestine wall into
the gut or through the wall of the belly. That usually kills the
smaller fish. The worms could be expelled within the first hour or 2
and never be seen.

Anything like this Nematode inside the fish for a while is going to
take some time to get over. Anything you can get her to eat is good.
Does she like snails! Mine have and they prove to be good live food
if they were raised in my tanks. Feed her as much as she will eat. It
takes 2 nights at full 10 - 13 ppm dosage to be sure all the worms
are dead. After that, given 3 weeks to let any hidden eggs to hatch
and kill them with a second dosage. The second time the fish
shouldn't show any notice of the medication.

Keep me informed.

Did you post the links and information?
I do have a presentation I have given to some the Midwest local clubs
with some videos about the Nematodes along with other information
about small Tank Mate Pest if your club is interested.

Regards,
Good Luck,
Charles Harrison

Oh, the marine tank, Probably won't see this Nematode i there. It's
another species that inhabits salt water. This one doesn't do salt water.

I had previouslly asked if I could copy his article to our library, this was his response. I've just been dragging my feet and haven't asked the mod's if this could be done.

Hi Lissa,
Sure post away. I wish I could get it to the pet shops where it would do the most good and stop it before the Nematode becomes a house hold thing. Print it, just give full credit.


Actually, there have been some recent uses in tanks which have scaleless cat fish present without problems. I have treated water and added Daphnia to see if the Levamisole would kill them A week later they were still there. So it shouldn't be a problem with the shrimp you have.


Fish show no distress to the medication.


Fish react immediately to the dead or dying worms inside them. This is usually what kills them if anything. The larger fish just swim through it all. Guppies are very sensitive to having their gut stopped up with dead worms. Take a look at the pictures I have and think about having 5 - 9 worms that size inside the little fish.


Good luck killing the Nematodes. Remember what doesn't kill them makes them stronger!
And we really don't need any drug resistant Nematodes swimming around.


Charles Harrison

[fishlady1958]

well Lissa, it would appear that you are a pioneer for puffer lovers like us all on here.....and i can't tell you how much i appreciate and hail your endevors to help your babies with all these horrible things .....if i could i would give you some kind of award for all this....
your record keeping is second to none....i really believe you should be writing articles for one of the fish magazines to help those that don't know the first place to start with all this.....


i thank you from the bottom of my heart......

[edmlfc1]

When this is totally over I will have an article ready. Dadof4 is helping me get it all together. It may be a month or more, I want to make sure the treatment works before we tell someone to do it and find out it dosen't work. From the articles that Charles wrote there has been great sucess with this medication. We shall see.

[fishlady1958]

that's awsome......
well i'm honored to be your friend......and when your all famous and this and that i'll say...."hey, i knew her when...".....and i know her now......


sending a cyber hug to annabelle and mom for their trying time of wating....


pssssst.....give chong a howdy from his step mom....i'm really anxious for him to see his new home......

[Jase]

Glad to hear it's going well. cyber hugs from me too.

[edmlfc1]

I think you're correct, the infestation seems to be tinning. How many more days of treatment?

I couldn't find my notes so I emailed Charles and asked:

When do I do the next treatment. I can't remember if it's 3 days or 4 days. I was told to do an 80% water change with a good vaccum then
retreat. I just can't remember how many days to wait.

His response.

One needs to give any covered eggs time to hatch and molt once.
That's about 2 weeks. So the time to re-treat is in 3 WEEKS.

After 2 nights, vacuum and do your water change. Don't scrub the wood
or tank walls just the gravel and change the water.

Charles H

I guess it's always best to ask the source.

[Dadof4]

I thought there was a re-treat in there somewhere and I just couldn't remember the treatment length . Even thought Mr. Harrison states that it can take a while to see results I think you are starting to see the die off of the most vulnerable parasites, in essence,the start of a good thing. I wonder if treating the tank with Epsom salt after the first water change would help expel the worms to shorten the time she has to go through the digesting and holding on to dead worm phase?

[Homer]

Your dedication and commitment is truly something to be admired...