This message is primarily for "ybenormal", but he said i ought to post any questions i have to the main board so that other could possibly benefit from the advice given.
The scenario<sp?>
I have *1* Green Spotted Puffer. Right now he's in a 2 gallon hexagonal tank with regular aquarium gravel and 1 air stone. He has no heater and no filtration other than the water changes that i am doing currently.
I do almost a 50% water change daily on his little tank. He's only been in there for approximately 3 days i think.
I have a powerful enhiem<sp?> filtration canister that I'm about to put on a 10gallon tank and put him in there.
ybenormal - told me to put some of my guppies from my established 30 gallon tank into the 10 gallon with some of their gravel as well. Well, the 10gallon tank has been cycling with 1 air stone and about 20 guppies and some gravel for about 1 day now.
I JUST finished my 50% water change on his little 2 gallon. My question is (and I'll check back on this forum in the morning (it's midnight right now) before i go to work on whether or not i can put the puffer into the 10 gallon aquarium. both the 2 gallon & the 10 gallon are both 100% freshwater - ybenormal is helping me to change over to salt water when I'm ready.
so far the guppies are all still alive (i had previously used chemicals such as CLR[calcium lime rust remover] and wanted to wash it out thoroughly<sp?> and test it with the guppies first).
My goal (Monday night) is to get the puffer into the 10 gallon safely and put that enhiem filter on that tank tomorrow night after i get off work (i get off of work @ 4:30pm).
I need to know if these actions will be safe or not.
-all2e_z
The Guppies are IN the 10 gallon.
The Guppies are IN the 10 gallon.
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Pufferpunk
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Please no one flame this guy, he's doing the best he can.
Can you put a lamp over his tank to try to keep him warmer?
Can you put a lamp over his tank to try to keep him warmer?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
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YBeNormal
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All,
The 10G is a short-term solution until the guppies can be relocated from the well-established 55G tank. Not ideal, but this is what we have to work with for now.
all2e_z,
If the guppies show no signs of stress from the chemicals you used to clean the tank, we'll have to assume that you were successful in removing most of the chemicals by rinsing the tank several times. This is no guarantee that there are no traces of the chemicals left in the tank though and you will need to closely monitor any fish kept in that tank for the next few weeks.
Your next step would be to charge up the canister filter using one of the filter pads and some of the filter media from your other canister filter. Remember, the filter media should only be lightly rinsed in tank water. Do not rinse in chlorinated water or the beneficial bacteria will die off. If the filter is very strong, you may want to cover in the intake with a small piece of filter pad or using a course sponge with a hole in the center for the intake tube to slide into. Return flow may also need to be restricted if the pressure is too high for the small tank. Use of established media will help but please note that the tank is not cycled. You will need to continue monitoring the water parameters closely and frequent water changes will be required.
Clarification regarding moving to saltwater: Your GSP is way too small for full saltwater. We will help you slowly acclimate him to brackish conditions once we have handled the current situation. Let me know when you have purchased a hydrometer that begins reading at SG of 1.000 (not 1.012 as is the case with the deep-six that you have).
As we discussed, the 10G is still far from ideal for a GSP and should only be a temporary solution. Getting him into at least a 30G should be the ultimate goal and should happen as soon as possible.
The 10G is a short-term solution until the guppies can be relocated from the well-established 55G tank. Not ideal, but this is what we have to work with for now.
all2e_z,
If the guppies show no signs of stress from the chemicals you used to clean the tank, we'll have to assume that you were successful in removing most of the chemicals by rinsing the tank several times. This is no guarantee that there are no traces of the chemicals left in the tank though and you will need to closely monitor any fish kept in that tank for the next few weeks.
Your next step would be to charge up the canister filter using one of the filter pads and some of the filter media from your other canister filter. Remember, the filter media should only be lightly rinsed in tank water. Do not rinse in chlorinated water or the beneficial bacteria will die off. If the filter is very strong, you may want to cover in the intake with a small piece of filter pad or using a course sponge with a hole in the center for the intake tube to slide into. Return flow may also need to be restricted if the pressure is too high for the small tank. Use of established media will help but please note that the tank is not cycled. You will need to continue monitoring the water parameters closely and frequent water changes will be required.
Clarification regarding moving to saltwater: Your GSP is way too small for full saltwater. We will help you slowly acclimate him to brackish conditions once we have handled the current situation. Let me know when you have purchased a hydrometer that begins reading at SG of 1.000 (not 1.012 as is the case with the deep-six that you have).
As we discussed, the 10G is still far from ideal for a GSP and should only be a temporary solution. Getting him into at least a 30G should be the ultimate goal and should happen as soon as possible.
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Phaedrus
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It will likely take many days for the tank to cycle, and cycling a tank with a puffer in it is a bad idea, as puffers are very sensitive to ammonia/nitrites/nitrates.
Get yourself some ammonia/nitrite/nitrate test kits so you can chart the progress of your tanks cycle.
First you'll see ammonia rising to high levels, with 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate. After a few days nitrifying bacteria will begin to change the ammonia into nitrites. When this happens you'll see the ammonia levels drop and nitrite levels rise. Several days later you'll see the nitrite levels drop and nitrate levels increase as different bacteria do their work on the nitrites.
When you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites with detectable nitrates, you have successfully cycled your tank. At least for that bio load. Depending on how much ammonia is in the system to begin with, the addition of a puffer may be too much for the bacteria to handle at first, meaning the cycle will have to start all over to match the new bioload.
That's the gist of tank cycling. there are really good articles in the library to read on the subject.
So basically, you're going to have to wait a while before you can safely put your puffer in the 10 gallon. In the mean time you'll have to really keep up on the water changes for that tiny 2 gallon. IMO that's the lesser of two evils, but maybe others will think staying in the 2 gallon is worse.
Also, when you do move him over, you'll want to take those guppies out, or they will be lunch. Also not a good idea for a GSP. Plus they will be an unnecessarily large bioload on the system.
Get yourself some ammonia/nitrite/nitrate test kits so you can chart the progress of your tanks cycle.
First you'll see ammonia rising to high levels, with 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate. After a few days nitrifying bacteria will begin to change the ammonia into nitrites. When this happens you'll see the ammonia levels drop and nitrite levels rise. Several days later you'll see the nitrite levels drop and nitrate levels increase as different bacteria do their work on the nitrites.
When you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites with detectable nitrates, you have successfully cycled your tank. At least for that bio load. Depending on how much ammonia is in the system to begin with, the addition of a puffer may be too much for the bacteria to handle at first, meaning the cycle will have to start all over to match the new bioload.
That's the gist of tank cycling. there are really good articles in the library to read on the subject.
So basically, you're going to have to wait a while before you can safely put your puffer in the 10 gallon. In the mean time you'll have to really keep up on the water changes for that tiny 2 gallon. IMO that's the lesser of two evils, but maybe others will think staying in the 2 gallon is worse.
Also, when you do move him over, you'll want to take those guppies out, or they will be lunch. Also not a good idea for a GSP. Plus they will be an unnecessarily large bioload on the system.
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Jager
your idea sounds very good, though i would continue the 50% water changes on the ten gallon until it finishes cycling in about 1-2 weeks.
if you have a reptile light that is either red or black light. can you suspend it above the tank about 1 ft or so? that way it will heat the water but not too hot.
the best thing is a heating pad. wrap it around the sides of the tank and turn it on 80 degrees. or low heat. and put it underneath the 2 gallon tank to keep it warm.
I know its alot, but it will keep the little guy alive
PM me your address and ill send you out a heater that will keep either tank fine. I should be able to mail it out and get it to you by weeks end.
also i know you are communicating with ybe over phone as well to ensure the best help. I am in VA as well and if you pm me i will be glad to help as i can as well.
also i have every major instant messaging service if you prefer on line.
if you have a reptile light that is either red or black light. can you suspend it above the tank about 1 ft or so? that way it will heat the water but not too hot.
the best thing is a heating pad. wrap it around the sides of the tank and turn it on 80 degrees. or low heat. and put it underneath the 2 gallon tank to keep it warm.
I know its alot, but it will keep the little guy alive
PM me your address and ill send you out a heater that will keep either tank fine. I should be able to mail it out and get it to you by weeks end.
also i know you are communicating with ybe over phone as well to ensure the best help. I am in VA as well and if you pm me i will be glad to help as i can as well.
also i have every major instant messaging service if you prefer on line.
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YBeNormal
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The 2G is not cycled either, so moving to the 10G is not a step back. He does have test kits and understands how to use them, so that should help in this situation.
Also, the plan we discussed was to remove the guppies from the 10G before adding the GSP. They are only serving as sacrificial canaries to determine if there are residual chemicals in the tank.
Also, the plan we discussed was to remove the guppies from the 10G before adding the GSP. They are only serving as sacrificial canaries to determine if there are residual chemicals in the tank.
Advice given & noted.
Ok, so I gathered from the responses that I am to wait about 2 weeks WITH the sacrificial guppies in the 10 gallon.
Btw, the fiance & I discussed it and I am now free to move the puffer into the only larger tank that i can make available (the guppies current 30 gallon home).
Only catch is - I have to find a way to get him IN there.
So, it's NOW ok to use the 30gallon tank as a home for the green spotted puffer.
A little background on the 30gallon:
It's actually a 29gal and it's currently housing somewhere in the range of 40-70 small guppies no larger than 1/2 an inch. The tank is HEAVILY planted with regular aquarium gravel that the local fish store(lfs) calls "filter media" (it resembles small gravel in mix colors of brown and dark brown tones). undernearth this "filter media" gravel is what i think is called "florite" or something like that - it's supposed to have heavily pourus surfaces so that plants can use it to attatch themselves easier.
Moving along.
This 29gal tank is being filtered everyday all day by an identical ehiem filter that has been filtering it since day 1(approxiamately 3-4 months now).
so - i don't really care about the guppies (i can always buy more - 12/$1). My goal is NOW to get my Green Spotted Puffer into that 30 gallon. So what's the best route to doing that. Oh yeah - the 29gal doesn't have a heater either.
-all2e_z
p.s. I'll check back on this forum when i get home today (it's currently 7:28am) at around 4:37pm or so. Any advice given up to that point will be carefully read, checked against the forum moderator's directions - and executed.
once again folks, i DEEPLY appreciate such intense supervision and assistance. I curently own 4 snakes, 1 oscar & 1 silver arrowana. There isn't a whole lot that you guys can tell me about my snakes that I don't already know - but when it comes to aquariums - I need the extra education. My fiance is the fish person - the Green spotted Puffer is *my* attempt at keeping something beautiful. Ultimately I wish to keep a saltwater fish tank (not a reef tank).
ttyl
Btw, the fiance & I discussed it and I am now free to move the puffer into the only larger tank that i can make available (the guppies current 30 gallon home).
Only catch is - I have to find a way to get him IN there.
So, it's NOW ok to use the 30gallon tank as a home for the green spotted puffer.
A little background on the 30gallon:
It's actually a 29gal and it's currently housing somewhere in the range of 40-70 small guppies no larger than 1/2 an inch. The tank is HEAVILY planted with regular aquarium gravel that the local fish store(lfs) calls "filter media" (it resembles small gravel in mix colors of brown and dark brown tones). undernearth this "filter media" gravel is what i think is called "florite" or something like that - it's supposed to have heavily pourus surfaces so that plants can use it to attatch themselves easier.
Moving along.
This 29gal tank is being filtered everyday all day by an identical ehiem filter that has been filtering it since day 1(approxiamately 3-4 months now).
so - i don't really care about the guppies (i can always buy more - 12/$1). My goal is NOW to get my Green Spotted Puffer into that 30 gallon. So what's the best route to doing that. Oh yeah - the 29gal doesn't have a heater either.
-all2e_z
p.s. I'll check back on this forum when i get home today (it's currently 7:28am) at around 4:37pm or so. Any advice given up to that point will be carefully read, checked against the forum moderator's directions - and executed.
once again folks, i DEEPLY appreciate such intense supervision and assistance. I curently own 4 snakes, 1 oscar & 1 silver arrowana. There isn't a whole lot that you guys can tell me about my snakes that I don't already know - but when it comes to aquariums - I need the extra education. My fiance is the fish person - the Green spotted Puffer is *my* attempt at keeping something beautiful. Ultimately I wish to keep a saltwater fish tank (not a reef tank).
ttyl
"To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." -Albus Dumbledore
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crazyforpuffs
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You cannot put the GSP into a cold water tank. Reading back - I think that is why your other GSP died. They are tropical fish...I think the cold water must have done him in.
I would love to see you move your GSP into the 29 gallon tank. However, you can't...not without heating up the water.
You have no heaters at all? Can you direct some kind of incandescent light over it to warm it up? Ideally GSP's need water temps in the high 70's...low 80's. For this, you need a heat source.
Heat is the most important thing you need right now - decor and substrate can be changed in time - as plants will not survive in BW...and you'll probably want an argonite or crushed coral substrate eventually...and the GSP would take care of the guppies, or you could trade them into the LFS...
but you still need to heat the water before you can put your puff in it.
When you have heated water and are ready to move your puffer, simply put a clean container in the aquarium and with a net, direct the puff into it...and then release him into the new tank. You don't want to net the puff and pull him out of the water...that is usually not good. Keeping him in water during the transfer is best.
I would love to see you move your GSP into the 29 gallon tank. However, you can't...not without heating up the water.
You have no heaters at all? Can you direct some kind of incandescent light over it to warm it up? Ideally GSP's need water temps in the high 70's...low 80's. For this, you need a heat source.
Heat is the most important thing you need right now - decor and substrate can be changed in time - as plants will not survive in BW...and you'll probably want an argonite or crushed coral substrate eventually...and the GSP would take care of the guppies, or you could trade them into the LFS...
but you still need to heat the water before you can put your puff in it.
When you have heated water and are ready to move your puffer, simply put a clean container in the aquarium and with a net, direct the puff into it...and then release him into the new tank. You don't want to net the puff and pull him out of the water...that is usually not good. Keeping him in water during the transfer is best.
Heat
If i put a submersible heater on the 29gallon tank (where the guppies are currently residing), that'll warm up the tank - yes. But The puffer has no heat right now - and if i put him into a tank that's been heated, won't he go into shock?
I DO have 2 300watt heaters (fully submersible) that we were going to use for our 150 gallon tank - do you think that 300 watts is far too much heat for a 29gallon tank?
-all2e_z
btw, "all2e_z" is the name i use on yahoo instant messenger as well. I usually turn it on when i get home from work.
I DO have 2 300watt heaters (fully submersible) that we were going to use for our 150 gallon tank - do you think that 300 watts is far too much heat for a 29gallon tank?
-all2e_z
btw, "all2e_z" is the name i use on yahoo instant messenger as well. I usually turn it on when i get home from work.
"To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." -Albus Dumbledore
heater?
nobody's gonna answer that question?
come on - yall can do better than that!
-all2e_z
come on - yall can do better than that!
-all2e_z
"To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." -Albus Dumbledore
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ChesapeakeSwellfish
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If the 300W has a decent thermostat, it should be OK if not ideal. Does it physically fit? As others have pointed out in various threads, vertical heater placement is best for puffers & some 300's are a bit long. Try it in any other container of similar capacity (plastic trash can?)& take lots of temp readings - setting the temp initially at the point where it will just come on. Might require some Rube Goldberg rigging if the heater is not completely submersible. I used to have some recording min/max thermometers that would have been a great way to test this, but they are long gone. It should go where flow is greatest to avoid hot spots.
I use Ebo-Jager 125W in my 30 Longs - cost me 15.99 each at http://www.drsfostersmith.com; I think Bigalsonline.com is the same. A 100W would be fine for your 29 unless it is in a very cold place.
You are correct re: shocking. As with everything else, slow & steady is the way. Good luck
I use Ebo-Jager 125W in my 30 Longs - cost me 15.99 each at http://www.drsfostersmith.com; I think Bigalsonline.com is the same. A 100W would be fine for your 29 unless it is in a very cold place.
You are correct re: shocking. As with everything else, slow & steady is the way. Good luck
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YBeNormal
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The issue with such a large heater, besides size, is potential to severely overheat your tank if the thermostat goes haywire. The same potentially exists with smaller heaters but they also put off less heat overall. Given the choice of an oversized heater that is working correctly or no heater at all, I'd use the heater. Raise the temp real slow though.
He didn't even have a name yet...
javascript:emoticon(':(')
Sad
I was sittin @ the computer, thinking about the best way to go about getting some heat on his tiny 2 gallon cuz the 10gallon wasn't ready yet. But I wanted to put him/her into the RIGHT size tank.
I smiled at him/her through the computer desk, got up to walk around and greet him/her and the puffer wouldn't get up to greet me back. I moved the tiny aquarium around a bit and no movement. So i stuck my hand all the way in and touched it's lifeless body and actually felt myself grieve. I feel terrible. My puffer is dead.
I believe she/he had no heat. I'm a little depressed @ the thought of it all.
I'm not giving up. I'm going to finish setting up a puffer tank & then i'm getting a couple of them. I'm going to make this work.
And to think...
The puffer didn't even have a name.
-all2e_z
Sad
I was sittin @ the computer, thinking about the best way to go about getting some heat on his tiny 2 gallon cuz the 10gallon wasn't ready yet. But I wanted to put him/her into the RIGHT size tank.
I smiled at him/her through the computer desk, got up to walk around and greet him/her and the puffer wouldn't get up to greet me back. I moved the tiny aquarium around a bit and no movement. So i stuck my hand all the way in and touched it's lifeless body and actually felt myself grieve. I feel terrible. My puffer is dead.
I believe she/he had no heat. I'm a little depressed @ the thought of it all.
I'm not giving up. I'm going to finish setting up a puffer tank & then i'm getting a couple of them. I'm going to make this work.
And to think...
The puffer didn't even have a name.
-all2e_z
"To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." -Albus Dumbledore
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YBeNormal
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So sorry to hear that he didn't make it. Although you weren't quite prepared when you got the feller, I know how hard you were trying hard to get things set up just right for him. If only he had held on just a bit longer...
It's good that you are not giving up on puffers and I'm sure you will make a great owner someday. Let's work to make sure everything is ready before you make the next purchase though so things will be easier on both you and the puffer.
It's good that you are not giving up on puffers and I'm sure you will make a great owner someday. Let's work to make sure everything is ready before you make the next purchase though so things will be easier on both you and the puffer.