A couple of figure 8 questions.

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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PaulRMcD
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A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by PaulRMcD »

First off I apolpogise for my vague water parameters. I have a Teta 6 in 1 test pack and the readings aren't as accurate as the other posts. I am buying a new test pack today, so I will post the more detailed readings a bit later.

pH 6.8
NO2 0
NO3 50
GH 8
KH 6
Cl2 0

I have a 30 gallon with 3 f8 puffers, 1 plecostomus, 2 cat fish, and one angel fish.

I feed them half a small blood worm block every other day, half a frozen muscle every other day, and a small picnh of flake food each day. (let me know if this is too much, i'm a beginner). I do a 20% water change each week. The only product i use is AquaSafe, which I add to the new watrer i am putting into the tank.

There have been no major changes to the tank in the last week, apart from replacing our dead live plants with fakes.

The tank has been running for about 5 months, excluding the 3 week cycle period.

Phew! Ok, so my questions have sprung from finding 1 small salt like grain on the tips of 2 of the puffers fins. I suspect white spot (ich), but because their behavior hasn't changed, including their appetite, I am hesitant to treat the water with chemicals until I am sure. I plan on raising the temperature to 82c (presently at 75) and I also read about adding marine salt to the water as a "natural cure". This has made me think about changing the tank to brackish, since it seems like a easy switch.

What are your thoughts on this? I have researched whether or not the other fish would be adversly effected by the marine salt, however it seems like they should be OK. Also, would I need to replace my filtering system to accomodate the brackish tank?

Thanks for your time and I would appreciate it if you could point out any other things I am doing wrong. I am not experienced, but I am enthusiastic! :D

(new water readings to be added soon)
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by Pufferpunk »

Your tank is extremely overstocked. 15g for the 1st F8 & 10g for every one additional. Plecos are huge waste producers. Hence, your nitrate being so high. It's recommended to keep that <20, so do a 50% water change right now. then get another tank for the puffers & make it brackish 9your other fish won't appreciate the salt). Be sure to cycle it 1st (you can instant-cycle with Tetra Safestart). Read the F8 article in our Library. Good article on ttreating ich too but it would help to get them into proper housing 1st.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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PaulRMcD
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by PaulRMcD »

Thanks for your feed back. I will get the 50% change made right away.

However according to your tank size on figure 8's, i would need a 35g tank, which isn't much more than what I have currently. The pleco and the cats were in to clean up waste (I wasn't aware that the pleco was doing the reverse). Would you suggest I empty my tank of everyhting but the figure 8's?

All the fish are showing no signs of stress (apart from the ich) so I thought I had a nice ballance. However I will change it if you think I'm on the wrong track.
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by Christemo »

PaulRMcD wrote:Thanks for your feed back. I will get the 50% change made right away.

However according to your tank size on figure 8's, i would need a 35g tank, which isn't much more than what I have currently. The pleco and the cats were in to clean up waste (I wasn't aware that the pleco was doing the reverse). Would you suggest I empty my tank of everyhting but the figure 8's?

All the fish are showing no signs of stress (apart from the ich) so I thought I had a nice ballance. However I will change it if you think I'm on the wrong track.
Yes. The 35 gallon takes care of the waste of those three puffers. The pleco and cats produce a TON of waste, so that will make your tank go into overdrive.

Just because the fish are not showing any signs of stress now does not mean that they are actually stressed. Plus, plecos can grow to be 18 inches long.
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by crazedpuffer »

PaulRMcD wrote:
All the fish are showing no signs of stress (apart from the ich) so I thought I had a nice ballance. However I will change it if you think I'm on the wrong track.
Ich could be from the stress. Definitely remove the other fish
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by Myaj »

Yes, the pleco by itself is too big for a 30 gallon, or will be eventually ;)

Angelfish are cichlids, and can get very large and agressive, that one by itself would be comfortable in a 30 gallon (tall is better for angels). What kind of catfish?

Gallons per fish is just for that one fish. Not 6 different fish.. you have to total it all up. And there's no way the other species will be able to survive in much marine salt. Catfish especially, the angel might be able to tolerate some of it, being a cichlid, but I think angels are from a soft water region if I remember correctly so that wouldn't be good for it.

So yes, you haven't had too many problems yet because they are all likely very young, but letting them be stressed and sitting in dirty water will harm them permanently.. its very easy to damage their bodies now. 50 nitrates is way too high for a puffer, they can survive, but they aren't going to be healthy.

Lots of water changes, research your species, and decide what you are going to do as far as housing.. buy more tanks or find new homes for the fish.
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by Pufferpunk »

If it is a 30L & not a 29g, 3 F8s should be ok in there, w/o any other tank mates.
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PaulRMcD
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by PaulRMcD »

Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback, very helpful! After a long hard weekend, I have convinced my wife to get rid of all the fish except the puffers.

I was a little worried the tetra would fit down the toilet hole, but with the help of a plunger and more than a little elbow greece I finally got him through. (kidding).

I have forgotten what type of catfish they are Myaj, (silver with black spots) but they are both growing at a huge rate!

I am taking them all back to the aquatic store next weekend. Also the two tiny white dots have disapeared, so I guess it wasn't ich to begin with.

It's a 30 gallon tank and not 30 liters which is what I think you meant Pufferpunk?

Thanks again!
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by Myaj »

She was questioning if it is a 30 gallon tank (which are longer and shorter) or a standard 29 gallon tank (taller). 29 gallon tanks, which many people think of as "30" gallon tanks, really only hold 25 gallons of water physically so a lot of people try to fit 30 gallons worth of fish into them and can't figure out why they keep having water quality/health issues.

The white spots may have been ich.. Ich is one of those things that is often present, but until the fish is stressed or sick enough for its immune system to weaken, the ich never gets established enough to progress to the clearly visible state.
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Re: A couple of figure 8 questions.

Post by amzwiz87 »

f8s thrive in brachish water so i would recommend switching. :D
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