Other IP treatments

[Nick]

My F8, Puffy, has been getting skinny and loosing his appetite, AGAIN. I'm really at a loss as to what treatments might be left. Prazi has always been ineffective during his bouts. Flubendazole has worked in the past, but this latest bout is unresponsive to even three times the dose that should be needed. Metronidazole has worked in the past, but has also became ineffective, which lead to my going back to flubendazole. Levimisole, which I finally resorted to this bout, has proven totally ineffective as well, and after how I have seen puffers react to it in the past, I was pretty hesitant to use it. My question is, just what is LEFT? The treatments which have been effective in the past are the type that kill protozoans and some classes of bacteria, while those that kill true worms have not been working.

[yunachin]

Ultra Cure PX from Gel Tek has always worked for me but it has Metronidazole and Praziquantel in it. Have you tried the pumpkin seed treatment?

[Nick]

Haven't figured out any way to get them into him. He barely eats, and spits what he eats several times before swallowing, if he does. I have and have used the ultra cure, but none of the ingredients in the stuff are working at all anymore. I'm staring to wonder if it's perhaps a recurring internal bacterial infection, metro and fluben both have some antibacterial qualities, though not as potent as strait up antibiotics. I may experiment with erythoromycin baths, he's looking way to skinny today...

[Dadof4]

You may want to try dosing two different meds. I have heard of parasites building up resistance to different treatments and if one isn't killing them then two might, two prong attack. One weakens one area and the other weakens another until the parasite is overwhelmed.

[Nick]

It's a good idea, one I recently tried.... a levimisole, flubendazole, metronidazole 3 way attack - to no avail...

[Dadof4]

yea, I was thinking about how we treat human resistant organism. With C-diff, VRE, and MRSA it is usually one broad spectrum antibiotic and one that is focused. The broad spectrum's usually weaken the bug and the focused ones that they use usually interfere with RNA production or interrupt protein synthesis. One thing else you could try, if you can get it (him/her?) to eat is initial high dose treatment x 1 dose, regular treatment for the course of the dosing, and then a maintained dose for twice the dosing course.

[Myaj]

This is pretty much an obvious suggestion, but have you tried major major water quality improvment? Even going to RO for a bit and doing daily water changes?

It could be it has a lowered immune system from everything and just can't fully fight off parasites even with treatment, and the only way I know to boost a fish's immune system is with extremely clean water and healthy food..

[Tender]

Hi!
I`m new to TPF (in fact this is my first post) but I have been an aquarist for some time. My prime interest is Loaches (in addition to my suvattii) and as I`m sure you know, Loaches are very much troubled by emaciation - also known as "skinny disease". The solution has 99% of the time been a combination of IP drugs (primarily Levamisole and Flubenol) combined with anti-bacterial medicines. The far most effective has been Maracyn 1 & Maracyn 2 in combination. Both are erythromycin based, but they are specialiced towards gram-negative (maracyn 2) and gram-positive (Maracyn 1) bacteria. Therefore they should be used in conjunction. As Loaches are scale-less, like puffers, I see no reason why these meds should cause any problems to puffers.

Could this be a possible cure for youre skinny puffer?

Kind regards
Marius Podolski

[Nick]

I tried an antibiotic bath about an hour ago, hoping it would improve his condition, as well as having the standard dose in his tank. I don't think water quality could possibly be an issue - with all of the water changes accompanying IP treatments, nitrates aren't even really readable, and the town water here on eastern long island is very good. My car is dead atm, so I'm not sure about getting RO water. The immune system activating effects of levimisole was actually one the the reasons I tried it, even though it's not my favorite med.

[Tender]

When you say "bath". What do you mean? A major overdose a very short while, or just soaking the fish in antibiotics?
Levamisole will definetly kill most parasites, but it wont help on secondary infections. (As i`m sure you know )

Again I must emphasize that this is a very common problem with Loaches, and no one found a real solution until the treatment with effective antibiotics was imposed, combined with IP treatment.

Also I agree with you that water quality is not an issue in this case.

[StormySkiez]

Hi Nick. Sorry to read your puffy is not doing well. I Hope with time he will get better. I know he is in excellent hands. I'm curious if you normally soak his food with garlic? I may have just been lucky with my puffs but I soak almost all their food in garlic and have never seen a sign of IP's in over a year.

[Nick]

Actually have tried it, but my F8's are both funny, won't touch garlic food. The GSPs GLOM food either way, so I haven't really bothered much, since the GSPs seem totally IP free - they stay fat for a LONG time - even a week with no food, and they're only down to "not fat" - definately not thin looking yet. Puffy is acting a little strange since his antibiotic bath - lodged himself under a piece of dead coral, and presently, his anus is quite dilated. I'm HOPING it means the antibiotics are having some effect, not that the EM is giving him the runs(as it does to humans the first day or so most of the time).

[StormySkiez]

I wish the use of garlic to prevent/kill IP's would be studied more to prove wether it works or not. Seems like the easiest, best way to get rid of them if it actually works.

Puffy needs to get better soon!

[Myaj]

How's he doing Nick? I've never had to do it but have had friends who've done the antibiotic/levamasole bath with good results sometimes. What you really have going for you is you've never let the worm load get too out of hand, so the die off shouldn't be too much for your puff to handle.

It just sucks that he keeps getting them.. I know it can be nearly impossible to completely get rid of every trace of internal parasites, but dang it, he's getting great care and should be able to fight them off.

[edmlfc1]

I'm pulling for you and Puffy! Looks like we are kind of in the same boat here. Me with Annabelle and you with Puffy. I'm hoping with all hope they both kick these worms once and for all.