Tank is yucky now

[mommy2puffer]

It used to be gorgeous.. pretty clear bluish water. Everything got a dark red coating on it, the gravel, fake plants, and even some on the glass. But even before the cyanobacteria the water changed and it's just not as pretty. Doesn't catch the light and shimmer, etc. We put a couple ghost shrimp in that the puffer has refused to eat and now they breed but only 2 have survived. Should they come out?

I know I should have a test kit, and I'll grab one today. It's a 33gal tank, always been near a window but it gets less light now in the winter. I don't know how brackish it really is. The hydrometer it only goes down to 1.012, we're just not there yet I guess. Should we just go ahead and add it with the water change (dissolve first, I know) until it registers to 1.012? Using Instant Ocean I think it's called. It's been set up for 2 years, only recently starting to brackish for the puffer. He's a GSP, about 2-3". Also a couple other little guys in there, 2 tetras of some type (pink), one other, small pleco and the shrimp. Had one neon tetra that died a couple days ago, he may have gone after puffer's snails or who knows. Anything that bugs him he's eaten over the past year, oops. Filter is for a 50gal tank with 2 of the cartridges and a biowheel.

Admittedly we've slacked on water changes and it's certainly due for one but it doesn't look any better after water changes and it just seems like something's up. The puffer seems a bit pissy, gets a bit of black on his belly but he missed out on snails for about a week so maybe that's it. The more I type I'm thinking I should have been testing the water and that's probably what's wrong. Any thoughts? And are the tetras ok with going to brackish. We just assumed that if it was slow they'd be fine. Should they be moved out for this?

[edmlfc1]

You really need to get test kits pronto or bring a water sample to your lfs and get the exact numbers. Don't take "your water is fine" for an answer. You need exact numbers. Also you need a hydrometer that starts with 1.001 or invest in a refractometer.
Here's a link for a hydrometer: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12831

[blondenblue]

Hi, I dont know about the tetras, but the pleco cant go brackish they dont do well with salt, like edmlfc1 you do really need to be able to test the water and be able to test the salt level.

[edmlfc1]

Should we just go ahead and add it with the water change (dissolve first, I know) until it registers to 1.012? No, You should not raise your sg more than .002 per week or you will kill all your good bacteria.

Using Instant Ocean I think it's called.
Yes marine salt is what you want to use. And disolve it first, add water then salt in a bucket to disolve. Measure your sg to get the correct amount. FYI, from experience if you put the salt in a bucket then add water it will be and stay cloudy. If you add water first then salt it's clear water.

Also a couple other little guys in there, 2 tetras of some type (pink), one other, small pleco and the shrimp. Had one neon tetra that died a couple days ago, he may have gone after puffer's snails or who knows.
Tetra's, pleco's and probally the shrimp cannot live in brackish water, this is why it died. One GSP requires a 30 gallon tank. If you want to keep other fish you will need a seperate freshwater tank.


Anything that bugs him he's eaten over the past year
GSP's are very aggressive and will kill anything in their tank, especially if the tank is too small. You may get lucky and get one that's not aggressive in the beginning but they are known for nipping.

The more I type I'm thinking I should have been testing the water and that's probably what's wrong.
I check my water weekly sometimes even several times during the week. And especially when I suspect something is wrong. Weekly water changes and water testing is a must in any tank.

Filter is for a 50gal tank with 2 of the cartridges and a biowheel.
Once you go full brackish you will want to get rid of the bio-wheels, they will throw salt creep everywhere.

are the tetras ok with going to brackish. We just assumed that if it was slow they'd be fine. No they will not be ok. If you want fish that you can take from fw to brackish get mollies.

[Iliveinazoo]

You're tetra and pleco are likely to die if you up your salinity to over 1.002 and i suspect that your neon has already succumbed to the salt.

You really have to get a hydrometer that reads down to 1.002 because if you up your salinity by more than 1.002 a week then most of the bacteria that converts ammonia and nitrites into nitrate will die off and your tank will have to cycle again. GSP's are very sensitive to water conditions and cannot tolerate high levels of nitrate so weekly 50% water changes are called for. Your puffer may just be shocked by the change of salinity and water conditions following the water change but i suspect that you may have a high level of nitrates (above 20ppm) in your water.

How long have you had the puffer in fresh water? If he has been there a while then it may be worth turning the tank fresh again until you can either find a home for your other fish or your puffer. I don't believe that they eventually 'need' to be in marine conditions but they do require high level brackish water and the change should be very gradual.

The only way to get rid of nitrates from your water is to do water changes or have a very heavily planted tank (plants won't survive in high level brackish water).

[Iliveinazoo]

i've just noticed that i said don't up your salt more than 1.002 - i meant 0.002!!!

[mommy2puffer]

Thanks. I'll grab a different hydrometer and take a sample to the store too.

See and I thought the biowheel was a good thing. There is more salt on the outside of the tank now. If we clean it off regularly it's ok. Any other reason to get rid of it? Is the salt going to hurt the biowheel itself? We just got the thing a couple months ago when the other smaller one died. We won't probably ever go full marine, at least not in this tank.

[edmlfc1]

You can keep using your filter just take the bio-wheels off. They sell a sponge that you can put inside the filter itself that will hold bacteria just as well and it will not spray salt creep everywhere.
Here's a link to the sponge I'm talking about:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... um=0021271

[mommy2puffer]

Cool, thanks.

And yeah, the water's not good. They said ammonia is .25, nitrates were really high, 200. Salinity is 1.005 though. I got my own testing stuff but it says fresh/salt and has 2 different color cards. Which do I use?

ETA: The nitrates did not test that high for me just now. On the salt card it shows 80 and on the fresh it's between 40-80. Mine doesn't even show a color for 200, maybe the guy was a goon?

[Pufferpunk]

Sounds like some frequent, daily water changes are in order.

[Iliveinazoo]

Test kits are not wholly reliable and results vary greatly between brands but they are the only thing that we have got to go by. Even if it's 40 it's still high for a GSP. i don't know at what salinity the fresh test ends and the salt test begins but I do know that freshwater GH tests don't work at 1.005. Maybe the card will not change colour at all if you reach the level where it no longer works?

Your high levels may be because of the lack of water changes but it could be that you are experiencing a mini-cycle because of the drastic change in salt levels.

Either way I'd recommend daily water changes until the levels come back down.

[edmlfc1]

At 1.005 you can use the fw cards. You will still need to set up a seperate tank for the fw fish.

[mommy2puffer]

Well it looks prettier already at least. Did the water change, about 30% only though. Carrying giant buckets of water through the house while pregnant is not fun, so we'll just do that daily instead of 50%. I got the new hydrometer but it's sitting on the counter with water in it for 24 hours. I think I measured fine on the salt I added so it should at least not have gone up any, check tomorrow.

Sounds like his tank mates are headed out though. Have to find someone who wants them, we've got this tank a small snail one b/c it makes the puffer dance for me even if it is disgusting to grab them out. There's no where to put more tanks! Where are you guys putting these things?? We have too many windows I guess.

I'll update next week. Would the light make a difference in how the water looks? It did change before we replaced the bulb but it also looked different right away. Are there ones that make it do the pretty shimmer a bit more?

[DRRT]

it sounds like your old bulb was just that, old.

daily 50% would be great, but even 30% is good and will bring down the nitrate. Just make sure the incoming water is the correct salinity and same temperature.

ask your lfs and see if they will take your fish. sometimes they will give you store credit

[goby1kenobi]

Your water levels are probably lousy because adding so much salt so fast has killed off the nitrifying bacteria in the bio-wheel.

I find that the newer Penguin filters, with the curved cover over the bio-wheels, do not kick salt around anywhere near as much as the old biowheels. If you have a newer Penguin (e.g., a 350), I'd keep it. If you don't have a problem wiping down any salt that may build up, there's more reason to stay with the bio-wheels than to ditch them.

The tetras and plecos are already at their limit for salt for the *short* term. They may not die immediately, but will not tolerate this level of salt for the long term. I would take them back to the LFS to see if you can get credit if you can't house them in another tank (which would be strictly FW).

A 2.5" puffer does not need full salt or even 1.012. Accordingly, you will probably want to tet a "full-range" hydrometer -- the one by Marineland is fine -- that will read all the way down to 1.000. (Some notable fishkeepers point out that puffers do not absolutely need full marine conditions as adults. Rather, they can survive and do well in marine conditions, enabling you to keep them in a tank with a protein skimmer, live rock, and a deep sand bed -- all of which improve water quality.)

Regarding how much water you need to change, that depends on your water quality. A lot of people here evidently run into high nitrates with their puffers, so if you see that also, yes, heavy water changes are in order. If, however, your nitrates are 5 or below, you can likely wait on a water change. Just keep testing weekly; you'll eventually work out how much water you need to change and when.