I have never posted on this forum before but Pufferpunk asked me to join to tell a story about a figure eight puffer I had.
I only have a reef tank now so I don't keep puffers anymore but for many years I kept tetrodon puffers.
I started with them in fresh water in the sixtees.
One of them in particular I aquired in fresh water in about 1971. When I changed my tank to full salt, he had no problem adjusting to the higher salinity. One day I noticed a lump on the side of his belly. It got worse every day until the fish could not swim anymore and I had to hand feed him.
I decided to operate and see if I could save him. He was put in a large piece of wet cotton. I opened his belly over the tumor with an Exacto knife and with a tweezer and rasor blade I excised the tumor.
I put some Iodine on the wound and put him back in a hospital tank expecting to find him dead in the morning.
The next day he was still laying there but he was alive. I lifted him out of the water and force fed him.
Again, thwe next morning expecting to find him dead I found him swimming around.
I again force fed him and continued this for a few days. In a week or so he was fine and he was returned to the salt water tank where he lived for another 12 years. There was just a small scar from his operation which his insurance did not cover.
From them on I have performed many operations on fish but they are usually just for Pop Eye or removing external tumors. I don't do appendectomies or tonsils.
Have a great day.
Paul
Operating on a puffer
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Re: Operating on a puffer
Wow that's amazing, no way I would be brave enough to do that. Thanks for sharing!
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Operating on a puffer
I guess you used no anesthesia, like clove oil? Did it try to puff? It's interesting to hear you kept it that long in SW, as as far as I know, they do best in a low SG of 1.005 (maybe it would have lived even longer?). Could you describe the force-feeding?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: Operating on a puffer
Yeah actually I was wondering about the force feeding cause you said you took it out but wouldn't it swallow loads of air.
Re: Operating on a puffer
The puffer had to be brave not me.Wow that's amazing, no way I would be brave enough to do that.
I did not use an anesthetic because I do not believe fish feel pain as we perceive it. I diden't come to that conclusion lightly. I have been keeping fish for almost 60 years. A fish is an animal that never gets to die of old age, they are almost always eaten by something larger. I have been SCUBA diving for many years and have seen many fish practically bitten in half by something larger. In almost all cases the injured fish will keep swimming (if it still has fins) and will even eat like nothing happened.
I have also many times caught a fish while fishing and threw it back because it was undersized to catch the same fish with the torn mouth a few minutes later. I know they obviousely feel something but it would seem that an animal that always dies from being eaten should not feel excruciating pain.
I did save this fish that would have died so whatever he did feel he did seem grateful by living so long afterward.
Re: Operating on a puffer
Pufferpunk, I have kept many of these puffers and they do seem to live very well in full salt water. I never had much luck with them in totally fresh water and kept them for years in brackish which as you know is where they come from.Did it try to puff? It's interesting to hear you kept it that long in SW, as as far as I know, they do best in a low SG of 1.005 (maybe it would have lived even longer?). Could you describe the force-feeding?
I guess you used no anesthesia, like clove oil? Did it try to puff? It's interesting to hear you kept it that long in SW, as as far as I know, they do best in a low SG of 1.005 (maybe it would have lived even longer?). Could you describe the force-feeding?
A puffer is very easy to force food. Just hold them and when they open their mouth to inflate, stick some food in on a tooth pick.
He did not try to inflate as he was very weak. Tetrodon figure eight puffers IMO rarely inflate.
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Pufferpunk
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burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: Operating on a puffer
The clove oil is to prevent them from inflating with air, not to prevent pain (they won't freak out & inflate if they are tranqued). Again, I am quite surprised in your sucess at keeping them in SW. They are actually mostly found in FW in the wild, but seem to do better with salt in captivity.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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indie
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 227
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1 x Suvatti Puffer
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- Location: surrey, uk
Re: Operating on a puffer
just like to say thats an amazing story!
I find it very interesting to hear your experiences with keeping puffers and fish in general and things you have found which go against whats written in books.
I find it very interesting to hear your experiences with keeping puffers and fish in general and things you have found which go against whats written in books.
Re: Operating on a puffer
Indie I have been doing this since before most of those books were written. I know some of the authors. I don't know if you know Bob Goemans, he is a friend of mine who lives in Utah (I am in NY) he came out to my home to see my tank about 15 years ago.I find it very interesting to hear your experiences with keeping puffers and fish in general and things you have found which go against whats written in books.
I also have written articles in the three aquarium magazines but nothing great or earth shattering.
I wouldn't really call myself an author, just a fishy guy.
Pufferpunk I force fed it underwater so he wouldn't fill with air. If you remove them from the water sometimes they have a hard time expelling the air and you have to gently squeeze them underwater or their tail may float.
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Idontknow
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- Location: Japan
Re: Operating on a puffer
Amazing!
Puffer's skin is tough, so how much force did you need to cut it? Was it a light incision?
Also, puffers not eating appear in many threads on this forum. Would you recommend force feeding in most cases?
Puffer's skin is tough, so how much force did you need to cut it? Was it a light incision?
Also, puffers not eating appear in many threads on this forum. Would you recommend force feeding in most cases?
Multi-tank syndrome
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32987
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
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T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: Operating on a puffer
Yeah, I've done a few autopsies & could barely get thru their skin with a fresh razor blade.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Jase
- Mbu Puffer
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Re: Operating on a puffer
That's pretty amazing! I hope you stick around to share your knowledge with us. 
She's always wanting people to cut up fish and look at all kinds of stuff. mostly with a sudden death you look at the liver.Idontknow wrote:Really? What do you look for when you do an autopsy?
-Jase
edmlfc1 wrote:A house without a puffer is not a home.
Re: Operating on a puffer
Puffer skin is tough but it is softest on their belly because it has to stretch. This was 38 years ago so I don't really remember how much force it takes to cut through the thing. I know you can cut it because my family is in the sea food business and we used to sell northern puffers to eat. You can only get the tail section because the rest of the fish is poisonous.
To autopsy a fish (I did one last week) first you need a book that shows you what the organs look like when they are healthy and what to look for when they are not.
To autopsy a fish (I did one last week) first you need a book that shows you what the organs look like when they are healthy and what to look for when they are not.