*waves* Brackish calculation help!

[Pandora114]

Ok, Need a little help here coming up with some calculations to bring our fresh 32 up to .005 without killing off the bacteria.

We have two 5 Gal buckets. 3 Buckets is a %50 water change give or take (more likely %60 but that's ok)

Anyway, How fast can we bring the tank up without totally killing the bacteria (it's already cycled, it had tetras in it which we moved upstairs into the girlchild's tank after giving the Pleco and Tiger loach to a pet store, Sev just didn't make it to see a new bigger home)

So one bucket = 5 Gallons. Was thinking of doing a 3 "bucket" change with one bucket at .005 every two or three days till the tank is up to .005, is that feasable?

We have yet to order our GSP from the NEW (and pretty awesome) fish store in town. (they have a valentini !! and she refuses to let it go to anyone who doesn't show any knowledge of basic marine aquaria and whatnot)

[indie]

You cant raise the sg anymore than 0.002 each week, otherwise you'll crash the tank.
Get yourself a refractometer or a hydrometer that reads from 0.000 if you havent already.

If you are doing a 50% water change, then you can put up to 0.004 salinity in the water change which will bring the entire tank up to 0.002 without killing your bacteria.
Then raise the salinity by 0.002 each week until you're at the desired level. If this is 0.005, once you have your tank up to that, you would then do every water change at 0.005 to keep it the same.

Do you know what salinity the gsp is in at the store? Its quite common for them to be in freshwater, in which case you can raise the salinity after you have purchased the fish.

[Pandora114]

They will be in .005 in the store. She has a brackish tank all set up with BBG's for sale.

This person knows her stuff. She has a Valentini for sale as well, and she won't let it go to someone who doesn't have the basic knowledge of Marine aquaria and the needs of puffers. This woman..is GOOD.

I'm not a puffer newbie. we previously owned a GSP in this tank (which my husband killed by misplacing a decimel and bringing the SG up to 1.05 (yeah...I know...I smacked him hard. He then brought the SG down to fresh and put the tetras in) (and we still have the refractometer from it)

And I also have a 20g planted tank with two Dwarf puffers in it.

So.. .004 in one 5g bucket and the rest fresh for each water change over 2 and a half weeks until brackish is obtained.

Thanks.

[indie]

Well assuming the tank is already cycled, the 0.004 should do it. Unless my calculations are off. But 50% at 0.004 makes the whole tank 0.002 right? lol.

I got confused with the whole calculations when i first started my tank brakish and now my puffers are sitting at a comfortable 0.010. Altho that was by accident as I was meant to stop at 0.008 but got my next water change wrong.oops.

Anyway. If the tank isnt cycled.. then you could cycle it at 0.005.

[Pandora114]

Oh it's firmly established.

Tore it down after our first GSP died, then we re-cycled it and put tetras in it. I JUST Took the tetras out (moved them to the 20g upstairs) , did a %100 WC yesterday and now there are like two or three juvie Apple snails in it. I'll be putting some pure ammonia in it to keep it going, along with the snails. So yes..it is very very cycled lol.

I figure adding a tbsp or two of ammonia as well as the bioload from the snails will keep the bacteria going (and probably make more...you know, since more = better because the extra will die off to accomidate the bioload. vs needing to reproduce more)

[indie]

you're all set then

[Pandora114]

yeah can't wait to get another GSP. I was very upset when ours died. (and once I learnt that the husband misplaced a decimel I was pretty grumpy at him)

Needless to say, I'm the one in charge of all aquarium maintanance in this house now hehehe. Just will be a pain in the butt doing WC's when he's gone. *dip clean jug in bucket, pour in tank, rinse repeat*

Gotta dig up that Powerhead.

[Myaj]

Just a quick note.. I *think* a teaspoon or two of ammonia is WAY too much for that small of a tank. Adding too much will actually kill your bacteria.

Double check before you do that, okay? Its been a long time since I've cycled with ammonia but I remember it as being just a few drops.

It might be safer and easier to just put a pinch of food in there as if you were still feeding a full stock of fish.. it produces the same waste load if it rots or is digested .

[indie]

I do a 40% water change in about 10 mins. Doesnt take long.. but then I tip the whole bucket in in one go! lol.

Missing a decimal is a pretty big mistake! I'd be furious!

[Pandora114]

Just a quick note.. I *think* a teaspoon or two of ammonia is WAY too much for that small of a tank. Adding too much will actually kill your bacteria.

Double check before you do that, okay? Its been a long time since I've cycled with ammonia but I remember it as being just a few drops.

It might be safer and easier to just put a pinch of food in there as if you were still feeding a full stock of fish.. it produces the same waste load if it rots or is digested .

Gotcha.

Well there's some lettuce in there for the snails right now. there's about 4 of them, so I'll toss in some flake tomorrow too.

I mean there was a pretty hefty bioload in there to begin with.

2 Danios, 4 silver hatchets and 3 male congos, along with a few clutches of Apple snail hatchings. And when I mean a few clutches I mean like two or three...(I now know what to look for IRT snail eggs btw) So when I say established tank, I mean...I had to do 2-3 water changes a week during snail outbreaks just to keep it in the >20ppm Nitrate levels, and that's WITH picking out snails! oy....

[Myaj]

Okay, I just double checked.. a few drops is good for a 10 gallon tank.. if you put in an entire teaspoon or two I'm 99% sure you'll wipe out any living thing in there, including the bacteria you're trying to feed.

[Pandora114]

eep. *breaks out test kit* brb

[Pandora114]

Umm does anyone use Hagen's Ammonia test for both fresh/Salt? I cant find my booklet..

[mala]

So.. .004 in one 5g bucket and the rest fresh for each water change over 2 and a half weeks until brackish is obtained.

If you are chainging 50% of the water in the tank, make each bucket to .004. when it is diluted by the water in the tank, it will become .002. So first week, all the water you add back will be .004. next week make them .006, then another change with the water added at .006. Might want to go just under .004 just to be on the safe side. if you only want to mix salt in one bucket, make it .012, with the rest of the water you are adding back freshwater (probably safer to make each bucket .004 tho)

Provided that my math and theory are right (and since i've never had a brackish or saltwater tank, it may very well not be), your formula when doing a 50% water change while raising your salinity is (.5x)+(.5y)=z where x is your original salinity, y is the salinity of the water you are adding, and z is your goal SG.

when trying to find the SG of the water you need to add to the tank, use 2(z-.5x)=y

week 1 you are starting at SG=0, and you want to go up by .002. 2(.002-0)=y which comes out to y=.004
week 2 you start at SG=.002 and you want to go up by .002 to become .004. 2(.004-.5(.002))=2(.004-.001)=2(.003)=.006
week 3 you start with .004 and you want to go up only .001 to get to .005 2(.005-.5(.004))=2(.005-.002)=2(.003)=.006

I'm sure someone can simplify that.

[Idontknow]

Okay, I just double checked.. a few drops is good for a 10 gallon tank.. if you put in an entire teaspoon or two I'm 99% sure you'll wipe out any living thing in there, including the bacteria you're trying to feed.

From what I've read about 3-5 drops per 10g is sufficient.