1 happy GSP, 1 not so much

[bcruzin]

2 GSP's
See below for water parameters
Weekly water changes 25-50%
Feeding frozen cubes from LFS
Aquarium 1 year old, cycled with live fish, sacrifced then for the GSP's

After coming out of the Live Chat, I'll post this for a second opinion. Any help is great. Thanks to Marksrush for getting me this far. . .

[bcruzin] 4:44 pm: recently acquired 2 GSP's. "rescued" them from WalMart.. of course
[marksrush] 4:44 pm: yeah, ok
[marksrush] 4:44 pm: I've done it myself
[bcruzin] 4:44 pm: i've had them about a month
[marksrush] 4:44 pm: ok
[bcruzin] 4:45 pm: 1 is still happy, very energetic, shows personality, voracious
[marksrush] 4:45 pm: ok good
[bcruzin] 4:45 pm: 1 sits on the bottom of the tank, will not eat, will not move
[marksrush] 4:45 pm: uh oh
[bcruzin] 4:45 pm: and I know you will probably ask me for numbers, concerning water quality, but i don't have those. I have a test kit, but i
think it may be inferior..
[bcruzin] 4:46 pm: it gives me colors, which I compare to a chart
[marksrush] 4:46 pm: same here, no biggie
[marksrush] 4:46 pm: it gets close enough for our purposes
[marksrush] 4:46 pm: what color is its belly?
[bcruzin] 4:46 pm: Being new to the site, i've learned alot. 1 being I should be using Instant Ocean, not Aquarium salt.
[bcruzin] 4:46 pm: Pure white
[marksrush] 4:46 pm: definitely
[bcruzin] 4:46 pm: lesson learned
[marksrush] 4:47 pm: ok, is his stomach pinched in?
[bcruzin] 4:47 pm: nope
[bcruzin] 4:47 pm: his mouth seems stuck open in all honesty
[marksrush] 4:47 pm: how big is the tank?
[bcruzin] 4:47 pm: it doesn't shut
[bcruzin] 4:47 pm: 12 gal
[marksrush] 4:47 pm: I don't hink their mouths shut really
[bcruzin] 4:47 pm: i will be splitting them up as they grow, they're still tiny
[bcruzin] 4:47 pm: ok
[marksrush] 4:48 pm: I mean they can, but both mine's are open almost all the time
[marksrush] 4:48 pm: yeah good because that's too small for 2 GSPs, even if they're tiny
[bcruzin] 4:48 pm: now i've heard of the teeth growing, but i feed them snails from time to time
[marksrush] 4:48 pm: ok good
[bcruzin] 4:48 pm: too small due to bio load?
[bcruzin] 4:48 pm: they don't seem to be aggressive towards each other
[marksrush] 4:49 pm: doesn't sound like internal parasites
[marksrush] 4:49 pm: no, too small because puffers like lots of room
[bcruzin] 4:49 pm: ok i see
[marksrush] 4:49 pm: even for a tiny one, it should have at least 20 gallons by itself
[bcruzin] 4:49 pm: oh
[marksrush] 4:49 pm: and how is the water movement in the tank?
[marksrush] 4:49 pm: is it well oxygenated?
[bcruzin] 4:50 pm: it's an eclipse 12
[bcruzin] 4:50 pm: there are bubbles suspended
[bcruzin] 4:51 pm: i don't have an aux oxygenator, like a bubble stone etc
[marksrush] 4:51 pm: not necessary...the main thing is water movement
[marksrush] 4:51 pm: ok so what do your test results say?
[marksrush] 4:52 pm: and how salty is your water?
[marksrush] 4:52 pm: was this a new tank you put them into?
[marksrush] 4:53 pm: although if something were really wrong with your water, the other one would be feelign it too I suppose...
[bcruzin] 4:53 pm: more alkaline side of the spectrum, soft water, nitrite 0ppm , nitrate 20ppm, Alkalinity 80ppm
[marksrush] 4:53 pm: has he always been like this, or did he stop eating recently?
[bcruzin] 4:53 pm: salt levels, not sure
[bcruzin] 4:53 pm: 2 days
[marksrush] 4:54 pm: hard to say
[bcruzin] 4:54 pm: yea i'm not giving you much to work with.. i thought it was the teeth, but they are observable right, i'll kno if their teeth
are too long/
[marksrush] 4:55 pm: yes, you'll see them
[bcruzin] 4:55 pm: ok
[marksrush] 4:55 pm: has he been pooping OK?
[bcruzin] 4:55 pm:
[marksrush] 4:55 pm: you need to get a hydrometer so you can measure salinity
[bcruzin] 4:56 pm: here's something for you. there is what seems to be a maybe 2mm long reddish thread protruding from his left gill slit.
[marksrush] 4:56 pm: anyway post this in the Hospital part of the forum
[Puffer Hospital]: chevy_grl has entered at 4:56 pm
[marksrush] 4:56 pm: um yes that would have something to do with it I suspect
[marksrush] 4:56 pm: sounds like a parasite
[bcruzin] 4:57 pm: so i should have mentioned this earlier possibly.      sorry
[marksrush] 4:57 pm: definitely post this in the Hospital part of the forum and I'd say get prepared to go buy some Parasite Clear
[bcruzin] 4:57 pm: deal
[marksrush] 4:57 pm: is it a worm, or an actual thread?
[bcruzin] 4:58 pm: it's really too hard to see, but as far as accurately describing it, i'd say thread-like.
[bcruzin] 4:58 pm: parasites can take a few weeks to rear their heads?
[marksrush] 4:58 pm: do you feed them bloodworms, is it a stuck bloodworm?
[bcruzin] 4:58 pm: no it's thinner than that.. and yes they were initially fed freezedried bloodworms
[marksrush] 4:58 pm: yes they can, and GSPs are notorious for carrying parasites
[marksrush] 4:58 pm: ok cool
[Puffer Hospital]: blondenblue has entered at 4:59 pm
[Puffer Hospital]: chevy_grl has left at 4:59 pm
[blondenblue] 4:59 pm: hi all
[bcruzin] 4:59 pm: #$%^&* ok so treat for parasite.. treat both fish at the same time? or quarantine?
[marksrush] 4:59 pm: you want Jungle Labs Parasite Clear - it comes in fizztabs...Petsmart has it I think
[marksrush] 4:59 pm: no definitely treat the tank
[marksrush] 5:00 pm: but post this first and get a second opinion
[bcruzin] 5:00 pm: alright. Thank you for your time. I'll keep you posted.. great site you've got running here
[bcruzin] 5:00 pm: ok

[riggers]

Yep bigger tank definitely needed here. Get one set up as soon as you can, as this tank really is no good. You will need quite big tank, like 55 - 60 gallons. 30 gallons each they need. I'm useless with illness diagnosis, but I would say similar to mark, that it is some kind of parasite. Is his mouth not shutting because of overgrown teeth? Their mouths should be able to shut so that they can eat properly. Fair enough if he just likes to swim with his mouth open, but when he is eating, is his mouth able to shut? Any chance of getting any pictures up so we can see the thing on his gill, and his teeth? Was the tank cycled when you put them in? How did you cycle it? You need to get it checked for salinity as well, so buy a refractometer or hydrometer as soon as you can an post the results back here. Marine salt is absolutely right. How long ago did you switch from using the aquarium salt? Do you know about GSPs needing to gradually switch to marine as they get older? How often are you doing water changes? What are you feeding them?

Sorry for all the questions, but it will narrow down the possibilities of what it could be. And don't forget those pictures!

[bcruzin]

riggers,
getting a photo of the red "thing" will be next to impossible, unless i clove oil him and use a super zoom lens. It's the thickness of maybe 2 human hairs put together, and reddish-brown, It's protruding from 1 gill slit. Just kinda flaps in the breeze, the underwater breeze. haha. I do weekly water changes, and use aquarium salt now, about a tablespoon every other water change. Hydrometer will happen tomorrow. the happy gsps' mouth closes opens etc. the not so happy gsp swims around mouth open like he's straining for plankton... Teeth are good, snails every few days. Cycled with live fish, FW, about a year ago. The Marine salt switch I'll need guidance on, new to the BW scene. I feed them cubed frozen assorted fish foods from the LFS. Maybe I'll start by just keeping one GSP in this tank for now.. 30 gal is out of my range right now, apt complex allows nothing over 10. sigh

[Pufferpunk]

I agree with Mark, treat for gill parasites, get a bigger tank (soon) & a hydrometer (now). How many spoonfulls of salt do you add?

[riggers]

Hmm, if you do get rid of one, you will still need to upgrade for the remaining one. You need to replace the salt every water change. Otherwise your salinity will be fluctuating every time, as you are removing salt and then not replacing it. Although if you are still using aquarium salt, you really need to switch over. If you are going to buy a hydrometer tomorrow try and pick up some marine salt as well. Read this for information about how to do the salt stuff:
library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/
That's odd that he would be going around with his mouth wide open. I don't know if it's anything to worry about or not to be honest, and I don't know why he would be doing it.

[bcruzin]

This has to be one of the most responsive/helpful forums I've ever experienced. Thanks everyone.. updates to follow.

[bcruzin]

Moment of silence for Clyde the GSP. Cause of death, IP's. Wish I'd found this site sooner. I won't be losing another GSP anytime soon.

[riggers]

Awww no I'm sorry about that . Are you sure it was IPs though. We never knew exactly what that thing was. Could have been any number of other things, eg. no salt, aquarium too small etc. That is sad though, guess you were just too late to save him.

[marksrush]

Really sorry to hear it; like someone else said in another topic, this has been a hard month for puffers.

[Idontknow]

Sorry for your loss

[bcruzin]

Update:
Purchased Hydrometer, 1.004 slow and steady raise it to what?
Purchased Instant Ocean
Purchased Fizz Tabs for IP's.. just in case the remaining GSP is infected
Purchased Ammonia tabs.. again, just in case.
Removed active carbon while the additives do their work overnight. 25% change tomorrow night, and I should be golden, other than salinity.

*reading Brackish Water Article in the Library*

[Idontknow]

How big is your GSP? If under two inches you only need to raise it up to 1.005 -1.006 to start. I read on this forum before that you should only raise up your SG in 0.002 increments per water change so it doesn't kill off your bacteria.

[Pufferpunk]

Bring back the ammonia tabs. If you have any ammonia, do a large water change.

[Myaj]

Agreed, no ammonia tabs, they'll do more harm than good (they remove ammonia, so your existing bacteria starves, then when there's no more tabs you have no bacteria to convert the ammonia and it burn's the fish's gills).

Sounds like it was gill flukes.. I don't know much about them, raising the salinity might be enough to kill them off (works for ich) but I don't know if it would.

Yes, only raise the salinity .002 a week, too much can shock the bacteria.