figure 8 puffer having issues eating?!?

[daddyrocks6]

We have had a figure 8 puffer for about 3 months now. We have a 55 gal, brackish tank set up, crushed coral substrate, salinity is ~1.003-4 right now, pH 8.0, nitrates and ammonia both 0, and we do ~25-30% water changes weekly. This is a tank that my fiance has had set up for about 4 years. The other fish in the tank (which I know both are not true 'brackish' fish, but have been in these conditions for their whole life, and are growing/thriving: one 4" clown loach (had this guy for about a year and is thriving and growing), one ~7" banded leporinus (had for 4 years) and one ~8" red tail tinfoil barb (~4 1/2 years) and one baby tiger barb who is now 'schooling' with the clown loach (only had for 2 months as well).

We have been varying the puffer's diet, giving him lots of seafood like clams, shell-on shrimp, frozen krill, frozen crab legs. I also always dose his food with Zoe Marine vitamins. He has quickly become my favorite fish in the tank!

My fiance (about a week ago) purchased a columbian shark, which he did without doing research just knowing that he was a cute fish and brackish. So, when he got home and I did the research, we realized how big this fish will get, and he returned the shark (under my demands!) Saturday. My question is: when we first got the puffer, he ate voraciously, everytime I put food in the tank. It seems over the past week or so, he's 'gone off' his food... Because of the bigger fish, I usually hand feed him with forceps, or put his food into a large net and he swims right in and feeds by himself in the net. Could it be that the addition of the shark caused him to go off his food?? He's accepted none of the shrimp/ crab/ clam that I've offered him the past week, he just swims over like he is interested, but doesn't actually eat. He only pecked and eaten a little bit of some freeze dried krill I put in there as a last resort yesterday and tonight, all he would take after being offered crab was a couple of freezedried bloodworms... his belly is still bright, bright white. The only thing I've noticed is that he always did some flashing off the heater (he seems to love to rub his little body on it) but have seen no signs of any external parasites or ich... so he's still doing that flashing type behavior, but I always thought that that was normal in small doses for puffers. (Also, his beak looks good and doesn't appear overgrown)

Any help? Could he just be a little emotional over us putting the shark in the tank and then getting rid of him?? He used to zip right to the front of the tank whenever I went to feed the other fish, and I haven't seen this behavior in quite some time. It especially worried me tonight when he seemed to only 'push' the freeze dried krill... I haven't seen him take a good healthy bite of anything in quite some time. Any suggestions?

[Pufferpunk]

My 1st inclination is your tank is extremely overstocked by many fish who will outgrow a 55g. Most of the fish species you are keeping prefer to be in groups or schools & without that it makes them nervous & possibly aggressive. Puffers are solitary creatures & do not like a bunch of nervous, fast-moving fish swimming around them, competing for food. None of your other fish (sans the C shark) are even remotely BW fish & do not appreciate salt in their system.

Have you tested the water lately? What is the water change schedule on this tank?

[Nick]

Was the shark quarantined? He may have introduced internal parasites of some sort to the system.

[daddyrocks6]

We have a Cascade 700 external filter system which is changed every 3 weeks, and do 25-30% water changes weekly. I also religiously check the water parameters weekly, and the readings I gave (ph 8.0, O nitrates and ammonia, salinity ~1.003-4) were from last night. We check our water quality like crazy, and the minute anything is off, we always do a water change... As far as the overstocking, I don't really disagree, however, these two large fish (the leporinus and the tinfoil barb) are fish that my fiance has had for 4+ years, and obviously when he got the tank up and running first, did not do his research to see how big they would get... but he loves these guys. Plus, these guys never seemed to bother the puffer. The clown loach (obviously also not bothering the puffer) we originally bought with two other clown loaches (I have consulted with people on another forum who do say that clown loaches are okay in low end brackish conditions, and this one we have is GROWING like mad and really happy) and I know that people say they are friendly, but one was significantly larger than the other two, and one eventually disappeared, and the other got so badly beat up by the clown loach that we bought a 10 gal tank just for a hospital tank for the poor guy, who eventually a week later, was so stressed out, wasn't eating and died.

I do think maybe it is either a stress issue, which I was hoping would subside now that the shark is gone. However, I brought up to my fiance this morning that from observing the puffer during feeding time, the puffer does seem to be put off by the tiger barb who darts into his space to feed... I never thought that such a smaller fish like that would bother the puffer?!? Also, the tiger barb never dares to go 'after' the puffer, just swims near him.

The other thing I've noticed the puffer doing more and more of is flashing against things... so could this be a parsite issue?? He always (since we've gotten him) had one largish white spot on one of his pectoral fins... But since he's flashing so much, could he have some type of gill fluke issue?? He is the only fish in the tank flashing, and we keep our temp up at about 82 degrees, and none of the fish show any signs of ich... but maybe an internal parasite. I do not want to treat him unless he really needs it... but any suggestions on how to treat an internal parasite for a puffer??

Sorry so many questions... we just love this guy, and my fiance is doing another water change as we speak (last one was last Thursday).. to try to see if there are any improvements. Thanks for any and all suggestions.

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, it does sound like you guys do love these fish but you might want to look into the adult sizes of some of the species you have & think about eventually getting a larger tank. The puffer would be happiest as a singleton in a 15-20g tank. Then you wouldn't have to force all your FW fish into BW & save a ton on $alt. There are articles on treating puffer diseases in our Library, along w/an article on F8s.

[daddyrocks6]

Hi Pufferpunk,

Thanks... I actually just got off the phone w/ my fiance, and we have a cycled 10 gallon tank that we are going to transfer the inhabitants (2 platys and one albino cory) into the 55 gallon and prep the 10 gallon for our figure 8 puffer. I think right now, it is the best way to try to get him to come around and eat, and also like you said, we can slowly transition the 55 gal to freshwater by diluting out the salt w/ water changes. I know that eventually he will need a 15 gallon, but I will do my best in the meantime, doing plenty of water changes for him... 2-3 times a week.

My question is now, the 10 gal we have has been up and cycling for about 4 weeks in FW conditions, ph 7.0. So, we are going to be bringing up the pH today, and also we will be adding crushed coral. Is there anything else (I will also be adding some salt, slowly!) you think I should be doing to prep our puffer for the big move?

I'm hoping to get him in there as soon as possible, to try to get him a little less stressed and happy I also remember reading not to use a net to do the transfer, and rather use like a container so that he is always in water, right?

Thanks for all of you help, and let me know if you agree with this plan??

[Pufferpunk]

I don't suggest putting a puffer in a tank that is in the middle of cycling. If you can get your hands on Bio-Spira from a reputable dealer, then do an 80% WC & add it to the filter, before adding the puffer. Get the SG up to around 1.002, so as not to shock the puffer too muuch. You can raise it to 1.005 within the next few weeks. Are you using marine salt?

[daddyrocks6]

Hi Pufferpunk
Yes, we are using marine salt.

I think I have now narrowed down the issues with our puffer. He is now fully clamping one fin at a time, not all the time, but enough so that I know he is definitely having a problem with some type of skin fluke or parasite. I may quarantine into the 10gal tank we have and try to treat tomorrow. ANy medication you recommend?? He is still swimming okay (Although still acting a little peculiar and still not interested in feeding at all).... Any recommendation on medicating/ treating would be very, very helpful. Thanks!

[daddyrocks6]

After reading article on parasite treatment in the library here, I am sending out my fiance to get some Praziquantel - (Droncit) tomorrow. We plan on quarantining our puffer in the 10 gallon we have set up for treatment... Any advice on dosing parameters or other advice in general would be greatly appreciated.

[Pufferpunk]

Do you have a cycled filter to put on the QT?

[Nick]

I don't believe in treating fish already in a main tank in a quarantine except in special circumstances, like marine ich, where the main tank must be fallowed to preserve other life while the fish are treated. Chances are any parasites on that fish are already contaminating the main tank, and it's simply luck that the other fish are asymptomatic, perhaps becuase they have tougher skin or not enough an an infestation to cause the flashing yet, and will just recontaminate the original fish as soon as it's returned. I say treat the whole thing.

[Pufferpunk]

I still think the puffer needs to be moved into it's own tank though.

[daddyrocks6]

Okay, so we might do both... And, we are going to use our cycled filter for the quarantine tank...

From everything I've read, it seems as though Praziquantel / Droncit is pretty tame as far as meds go, and should not do more harm than good for my asymptomatic fish in my main tank... have you guys have that experience. (We had an ich outbreak ~2 - 2 1/2 years ago, and instead of doing online research, we went to the pet store and bought some rid Ich, which really messed up our fish more...one dead fish )which I believe was totally due to the meds and not the ich) and MULTIPLE water changes later, I did some research online, treated with heat/ salt, and beat the ich that way!)

But in this case, I have some 'high salt intolerant' fish in our main tank... Plus, from what I've read, high salt, really isn't the way to go to treat this parasite issue, causing my puffer to clamp his fins...Plus, I also agree with pufferpunk, that isolating my puffer will give him the best chance for beating this issue and being 'happy', b/c he seems very stressed out by the activity by the smaller fish in our tank...

So, today, we are going to try to purchanse some Droncit, prep the QT tank (using cycled filter and everything pretty much but the tank... we've decided to go ahead and use the 10 gallon we have up and running... just have to adjust the pH a bit to get it up to ~8.0, so it's what the puff has been used to).... and treat him in the QT tank...

But, I would really like reassurance that dosing my mank tank with Droncit won't adversely affect my other fish!?!? Thanks!

[daddyrocks6]

So, after I get home from work, we plan on transferring the puffer to the 10 gallon tank and trying to treat him for parasites... I am off to get the meds (trying to get the Droncit) after work... and we will do a nice water change right before we transfer him.. I guess all I need to do is follow the directions? I have no problem doing daily water changes in his tank as well to try to keep him comfortable.

I am hoping the stress of transferring him to his own tank won't be too much on the poor guy, since all he's really eaten in the past 5 days are a couple of bloodworms.... but I really think at this point, he is not going to get any better in our 55 gallon community tank (no other fish are showing any signs of stress)... and quite frankly, I think pufferpunk was totally right that all the activity of the other smaller fish we have is just adding to his stress.

The last question I have, is, he is not emaciated, but yet, he is also not eating?!?! Should I be sure that he has internal parasites and not just stressed out by the smaller fish...like I said in my post last night, I DEFINITELY saw him flashing a lot more than usual, doing like a twitching thing at times, and also clamping his gills a bit. Honestly, only saw him clamp his gills 2x's last night, but I've never seen him do that clamping thing ever before, so that's why I think he has some type of parasite that is also affecting his appetite. I stared at his gills last night as much as I could...didn't see any sign of anything, although he does still have this one white spot on his right pectoral fin (but he's had that since we got him 2 months ago)... no signs of ich... Should I try to see if he acclimates to the new tank, all by himself, before treating... or am I just wasting time. I am scared to treat him with anything b/c have had bad experiences with meds before... but I guess Droncit is pretty tame on the fish, right?

Ugh... talk about stress!! I love this little guy and really want him to pull through okay... feel like I'm puffer obsessed right now, but REALLY appreciate any info anyone can offer on medicating for parasites, how to make the transfer to a new tank (which is cycled) easier..

BTW, I'm planning on putting him into a tank that was cycled freshwater... the tank he's in now is ~1.003-4 salinity, so I think I'm going to bring up the salinity of the FW tank up to ~1.002 before adding him... any thoughts??

Thanks again!!!

[daddyrocks6]

Do you have a cycled filter to put on the QT?

And yes, we have a cycled filter to put on his 10 gallon tank... cycled FW, but will slowly bring it to the salinity he is used to in the 55 gal.