South American Puffer FW or BW

[cuteyiddlepuff]

I came across this thread on SAPs being kept in brackish water. Neale Monks says they inhabit low brackish estuaries. He says they can be kept with BBGs at a salinity of 1.003. Is anyone keeping their SAP in BW? My intention is not to start a nasty debate but a nice discussion!
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:A0 ... =firefox-a

[jimi]

you must keep in mind that allot of fresh water fish will live in low brackish but it shortens there life span a bit and they arent realy happy

[Pufferpunk]

I have also read this & believe keeping them at 1.003 would not be a problem. It just seems so much easier to keep them in FW though.

[apachepufferman]

1.003 is very low end brackish so that might not effect them that much; but why?
If someone wanted a brackish tank go with F8s or GSPs. IMO if you go brackish use brackish fish. Also 3 SAPs in a 29g thats a bit over the top and then adding BBGs you would have a very overstocked tank.

I also thought it was kinda funny that he wanted to use a protien skimmer. If the sg is that low then I wonder if you could use one on a FW tank as well.

[Corvus]

I guess this may depend also on where the fish ware caught.

SAPs can occur in various water types, those from the lower amazon likely will survive in lower brackish conditions. I've seen them in material from the estuary area. Most imports come from the Amazon.

I am not sure about those from the Rio Negro and Columbia wich have been imported in the past and at least two times posted in this forum. They apparently were more silver and had wider black stripes. They naturally live in black water and are thousands of miles away from the sea. Even with this active fish I'd expect some variability of the population and adaption to the environment along its wide distribution. But that is just hypothesis, not fact.

[cuteyiddlepuff]

I have two SAPs, 1 F8, and a GSP. I would not keep my SAPs in a brackish aquarium for my own amusement since I already have brackish aquariums. I don't think they are strictly "freshwater" because they are found in estuaries which are low brackish. I like to research and find out for myself what is best for the species. At one time people thought the Figure Eight was freshwater until RTR discovered they have a longer lifespan in brackish water. I don't think much is well-known about South American Puffers. I think Neale Monks is very knowledgeable about them. I like his model of stocking SAPs, basically you can have as many as your filteration supports, they do well in long tanks. Here's the thread : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8021&p=82475&hilit=+gallons#p82475 I'm not saying they aren't best in freshwater aquariums, I'm just starting a discussion. I think when it comes to fish-keeping the priority is the animals.

Corvus, you made a very interesting point, I didn't think of that .

[coldmachineUK]

I have three SAPs in a 36G and they do just fine. As long as there's a fast current (part and parcel of over filtration), and plenty of open swimming space, they'll be fine. I keep mine in full FW and I wouldn't consider raising the salinity of the water partly because I also have an LDA08 in there with them...but partly because I'm not convinced it would be of any benefit.

There seems to be confusion about brackish conditions being the natural environment in which some fish are found (perfect example being F8). I think Neale has already explained this point and I believe RTR also commented on his findings on the same point: they (F8s, for example) may not necessarily be found in brackish conditions in the wild (as Fishbase will confirm), but in captivity the addition of marine salt and the resulting increased hardness of the water help reduce the toxicity of ammonia/nitrIte. Since we're dealing with fish which are particularly sensitive to these, and placing them in enclosed and small conditions compared with the wild will pose a greater risk of exposure, then it makes sense to elevate salinity to provide for a healthier environment. The fish can tolerate it, so everybody is happy. It doesn't necessarily mean they are 'brackish fish' and that term is often used to describe species which either live only on a temporary basis in brackish conditions, or which travel from FW to SW for one reason or another (known as diadromy). E.g. in Brachygobius xanthozona, your most commonly found BBG, it's amphidromy. For confirmation that BBGs are FW see gobiidae.com and in particular this page: http://www.gobiidae.com/gobiidae_murdy/ ... 5_8_06.htm.
I've been harping on about this issue with BBGs for a while now, but it's applicable to F8s as well I belive, and likely relevant to your SAP issue described in the original post.

In short: SAPs are freshwater, they may travel through or be found in areas of varying salinity (i.e. what we'd call 'brackish') and may therefore tolerate elevated levels of salinity, they're likely sensitive to toxins (since most puffers are) and the addition of marine salt is known to increase hardness and reduce the toxicity of ammonia/nitrIte, therefore some salt may prove beneficial but it would not be essential with a well filtered, well maintained, clean tank.

[Pufferpunk]

That's not to say that all our sensitive FW fish belong in a little BW though...

[coldmachineUK]

Oh, no! Definitely not! Sorry if it read that way
What I'm harping on about is that people often say "it's brackish" without really understanding the background of that.

[Pufferpunk]

There are still many of the school that adding a little salt to all tanks is good--NOT!

[coldmachineUK]

Totally agree: the hobby has moved on, I would hope. I think this is where some of the 'it's brackish' misunderstandings stem from.