Concerns About Puffers----New Question!!!

[PufferKate]

Earlier this week one of my three GSPs died. After I discovered him, I did a 75% water change because he'd been dead in there for maybe a day. 12 hours for certain. Now this morning my other two GSPs didn't attack their food like they usually do and whatever they did try to eat they spit out. So I doubt they ate very little today. Since I had to leave for work I didn't have time to do any water parameter tests. Sorry. Should I do another water change? Skip a few meals? Their tummys still look rounded but they're not acting like themselves.

[Nick]

No harm in doing another water change.

[PufferKate]

I'm finally home so I'm now able to give everyone the parameters I know you require to help me.

1) PH--8.0 Ammonia--.25 NitrIte--.0 NritAte--5.0 Salinity--1.005

2)30 gals. Two GSP(use to have three) third one died Monday night or early Tuesday morning. Didn't find till Tuesday evening

3) Twice daily. Consisting of frozen brine shrimp, frozen plankton, frozen Krill, frozen blood worms. Water changes done weekly. I use Prime for conditioner of my water and Instant Ocean Marine salt. I've also added aragonite to the depth of one inch on bottom of tank. However, I did notice after I added all my aragonite that the bags had an expiration date of April 2008. Does that matter any?

4) After the puffer died I did a 75% water change that same night.

5) One month and 4 days. Didn't cycle it. Just set it up and placed fish into it. Yes, I know,bad me. Did I mention I'm a newbie at this?? LOL The puffers did come from the store as FW but I slowly switched them over to BW. I've also added some plastic plants, shells and an ornament that I got at WalMart.

They are roughly the same size about 1 1/2 inches big. They get along fine. A little chasing at meal time but not much or anything serious. They flash alot against objects and they started doing this about the time I started adding marine salt. Also, their are dark most of the time and they hide alot except when they think they're getting fed. Their appetites have been that of little piggies until this morning when they barely touched their food. When I first brought them home and when they were still in fresh water they didn't do any flashing or hiding. Mostly, they were pacing up and down the glass or buzzing around the tank and their color was always very bright. There was no flashing or hiding back then. But since I started using marine salt and added the aragonite they have been doing those things.

I hope I've provided enough information to help you, help me.

[Nick]

When did you add the argonite? Was it the stuff with water in the bag? Sometimes those have a bit of rotting material from bacterial dieoff etc, could be causing the ammonia, which could be causing the fish their discomfort. I'd do a 50% or so water change right away to get that down a bit.

[PufferKate]

I added the aragonite the second week of the tanks setup. There was no water in the bag with the aragonite but it did feel slightly moist. I didn't know there was suppose to be water in it. None of the bags I saw did. I also didn't think to rinse it out before putting it in the tank.

I'm also one of those kill them with kindness when it comes to feeding. I tend to overfeed which is a problem I have with my other tanks of goldfishes and angelfishes too. I'll try to get that under control since it's a reoccuring problem of mine and since I know it can cause the ammonia spikes. I also do another 50 % water change tonight. The water looks quite clear and the puffers did look more active this morning and ate better then yesterday. Dakaras color was quite bright but Anubis was still dark.

[Pufferpunk]

Not only will it cause water quality problems but obese fish have shorter lifespans. there is a sticky here on Overfeeding Puffers.

[PufferKate]

I've got another question concerning sick puffers and decided to just reuse my old post. Hope that's okay? I notice that the flashing has gotten alot less but now my biggest puffer isn't eating or eating much. At least I haven't witness him eating anything and he just kind of swims by any food I put in there. His tummy is still slightly rounded but not as much as before and I notice he's breathing really, really fast. He's still a little dark but tummy is white now. The parameters are the same as before. I'm having a hard time keeping my ammonia and nitrAte down. The other puffer looks find, all bright colors, no darkness and eats like a hog. He's very out front and in your face fella. He loves to come see what you're doing and if you'll feed him. The other will hide even when food is available or come out when he sees the other one eating. Usually, there's very little left by that time. I fear he's getting sick like the first one.

[t1gerbee]

have you cut diwn on their feeding? Or ae you trying to feed them morwe because you worry about them not eating?

you have to remove ALL ammonia, just leep doing daily water changes until there is none present, it is so bad for the fish...

over feeding will add to your ammonia problem... so the thing gets very circular...

any other signs of illness, white spots, flaking skin, .... ?

[Agnate]

What are you using as water conditioner? If you aren't using Prime, go get some immediately and put two dosing's worth into your tank (I believe it's 1 mL per 10 gallons, and if you've got a 30 gallon tank, then put in 6 mL). This will help to detoxify the extra ammonia that's in the tank until things settle down.

Next up, don't feed twice a day. Puffers are piggies for a specific reason, which is that in the wild, they don't come across food all of the time. Thus, they eat as much as they can, as it might be their only meal for a couple days. As such, overfeeding your puffers in terms of quantity AND frequency can be causing very large ammonia spikes; the more you feed, the more decaying waste there is (and I'm not just talking about left over food).

Although they may "beg" for food, you're going to have to toughen up and deny them their delicious treats, hehe. Feed once a day, and only feed enough so that their bellies are rounded (ie. so that they look plump, but their stomachs don't look like they're about to explode). I usually gauge mine by saying that their stomaches "plumpness" would be about 50% of their height. So look at how "tall" they are (not from head to tail, but from bottom of unfed stomach to the top of the back), then take half of that approximate height, and that's how plump their belly should be after they've eaten.

Also, skip 1 day a week for feeding (I usually pick Sunday). They'll hate you for it (trust me), but it's better for their health (believe it or not).



People will often notice me suggest Prime as a solution to trace amounts of ammonia/nitrite, but I know how difficult it can be to find someone near you who has cycled brackish media for you to work with. Just keep up on water changes, but if you can get Prime, you'll make your life a LOT easier during this current instability.



Keep us posted!

[PufferKate]

Sorry, for not responding sooner. I'm having computer problems at home so I have to do my forum time at work and works been crazy.

Concerning my puffers, I'm sad to say that I've had another death. I lost Anubis. So far Dakara is looking good and bright and eating well. I did a wc on sunday and I'm cutting back on the amount and frequencies of my feedings. Hopefully, I'll be able to save Dakara. To say I'm a little discourged is an understatement and I'm not sure if maybe puffers are a little to sensitive of a fish for me to handle. I'm probably being hard on myself. I haven't been having alot of luck with any of my fish lately. I've lost one of my oranda goldfish and two other fancies have swim bladder issues now and I'm not sure why. I make frequent water changes with them and I feed them only the best non-commercial goldfish food you can find online. I'm beginning to think my luck with fish is nothing but bad lately and if it wasn't for my angelfish doing really well I'd probably give up on the fish hobbie altogether.

I'm a little sad about the whole thing to say the least.

[xspainx69]

Sorry, for not responding sooner. I'm having computer problems at home so I have to do my forum time at work and works been crazy.

Concerning my puffers, I'm sad to say that I've had another death. I lost Anubis. So far Dakara is looking good and bright and eating well. I did a wc on sunday and I'm cutting back on the amount and frequencies of my feedings. Hopefully, I'll be able to save Dakara. To say I'm a little discourged is an understatement and I'm not sure if maybe puffers are a little to sensitive of a fish for me to handle. I'm probably being hard on myself. I haven't been having alot of luck with any of my fish lately. I've lost one of my oranda goldfish and two other fancies have swim bladder issues now and I'm not sure why. I make frequent water changes with them and I feed them only the best non-commercial goldfish food you can find online. I'm beginning to think my luck with fish is nothing but bad lately and if it wasn't for my angelfish doing really well I'd probably give up on the fish hobbie altogether.

I'm a little sad about the whole thing to say the least.

Dont think that its always your fault. I tried doing these by the book when I had my native freshwater fish and after like 2 weeks of keeping them I ended up with an Ick epidemic in my tank and out of 10 fish I had I ended up with 4 fish left.

I raised the temperature and added Aquarium salt and treated it with medication and they still died anyway. Sometimes its not always our fault, sometimes they just dont make it. There are times when our ignorance plays a role in their deaths. But unfortunately sometimes we think its us but it was them.

This is not an easy hobby and its sometimes not cheap either. I work for my fish, I dont work for myself.

The idea with this hobby is that you learn from the mistakes and take the effort to do it better next time around.

I think the first thing you need to do is research the fish your gonna buy before buying it. Look up their living requirements. If you can provide their living requirements then go for it.

I believe that if your gonna do GSP's again, I would get a bigger tank than what you have now. If you can upgrade then stick to smaller species.

[StormySkiez]

I'm sorry you have had so many problems w/ your fish and sorry for your losses. 1 loss is 1 to many and more then that makes you feel like "I am going to give up" sometimes! Hang in there, I know how you feel. I have lost a few fish, shrimp, snails myself and I know the first thing you do is blame yourself. Don't because there are so many factors that can cause a death. My betta has made me feel depressed at times (because he wont stay healthy!). I just tell myself I do what I can the best I can. Many fish may be predisposed to health issues. Yes, fish are expensive to keep and a lot of work but....your angel needs you .

I think the key for me w/ my fish who have never had health problems is to be very careful not to introduce new fish into my fish tanks (QT only) and weekly water changes being very careful not to cross contamaniate w/ my other fish syphons and such (learned this fast as I set up my QT tank with a betta who will not get over fin rot!). I use seperate syphons for each tank and sterlize when I need to. Check water temps before adding to tank and test water parameters at least monthly on established tanks. This part is hard....do not over feed. Who is to say how much each fish is getting when you have 15 fish in a tank...we have to use our best judgement with out fish and tanks. I doubt you could kill a fish over feeding from time to time...I hope not!

I hope you feel better soon .

[Agnate]

I didn't read all of the posts (I'm at work), but you said you have Goldfish with swim bladder issues?

I've read that too much overfeeding can cause a multitude of problems, which often manifest as either constipation or swim bladder problems. Now, I'm not saying you're overfeeding (as I don't know how much you feed), but is it possible you've been overfeeding for an extended period of time, which might be causing this?

Again, I don't know first-hand how much you're feeding, so I can't really comment. I also don't know all that much about goldfish, so yeah.

I did read an article about how some commercial breeders overfeed their Bettas (or other fish), so that they can reach a "sellable size" quicker, allowing them to make more money. For female bettas, this actually renders their reproductive organs almost-useless, as the increased consumption of food causes pressure on the internal organs and creates a lot of problems (especially if it's happening when they're trying to grow).

Have you tested your tap water? Maybe there's a severe change in pH or it already has nitrate levels which could be causing you problems.

Having the streaks of bad luck is definitely discouraging, but try to stay positive!