Kordon's Ich attack working?

[indigo]

Hi

We have 8 (official ) not counting food or quarantine tanks) marine and 2 fresh water tanks.
I have been down that road with ich like so many of us and over time have had to try treatments with various fish, tanks etc like hypo, copper, fresh water dips, Kordon's reef safe etc. (not all at the same time of course )The reason for this post is that i haven't kept puffers before and after doing tons of research decided it was time. So bought my first dogface puffer and had Puffy in quarantine for about 1 week when along came the ich. Without going on for pages we tried but after another week and 1/2 he died. After much debate we decided to try again, so seperate quarantine tank and in he went Puffy no 2. This puffer refused to eat even though he had been at the fish store eating for about 3 weeks prior. So kept trying different foods including ghost shrimp which finally got him interested in taking the krill on the tweezers on about day 4.( the ghost shrimp are still running about unharmed). Another week went by and then on Sat pm i saw he was swimming weird so looked closer and he had somehow sucked his one side fin into a gill. I have never seen that done before or heard about it. Anyone else have something like that happen? He came over to the front of the tank but was clearly unhappy. After quite awhile he got some of it out and i got the rest out with long tweezers and very careful moving so that the fin wasn't torn or damaged. Afterwards he swam around like normal and ate, next morning ich. One of the worst cases i have ever had in a new fish.

Went the hypo route as i wanted to keep the skimmer running. Did it slowly over 2 days etc. Puffer refused to eat and seemed to be getting seriously worse. So by end of day 3 decided to try something else that has worked for some of my other tanks. I fresh water dipped him in RO water same temp and ph for 5min then slowly drip acclimated him to 1,022 and treated with Kordon's ich attack and nova aqua + for slime coat and vitamins. I had taken all carbon out of filters (large biowheel and 2 eheim cannisters, lot of live rock) and turned skimmer off. I run it on and off so as not to take all the meds out and added a airstone near his hideout. Also added another heater to lift temp. Day 4 didn't look good still not eating. I kept dosing once in the am again at night and added some more ghost shrimp to catch his eye. The water starts to look hazy by this point but i have used it before in a nano cube and was ok as in no losses coral or fish so hoping for the best with the puffer. This morning rushed down to check and he was swimming around lights came on and he looked much better and more aware of his surroundings. I defrosted some Krill and tried it dangling on long handle tweezers for what seemed like the millionth time. Finally he ate 2 pieces!!!!!

I dosed again and am now waiting to see because i know from past experience that the organic stuff takes longer and results vary plus ich takes quite awhile to get rid of. I really hope my puffer makes it because even though i love my triggers and reef tanks, puffers have become my favourite fish for personality. Has anyone else had any experience with this product? Any other ideas, info would be great.

[cobra1713]

i tried it once on my pair of L18 plecos, it seemed to work a little but that along with a temp raise didnt do it for my plecos and they both died, seems like your on the right track tho, keeps us informed, have any pics?

[indigo]

Hey i know how that goes. I have had it work before on perculas but not on clown gobies in two seperate tanks so this time i just hoped for the best. So far so good (keeping fingers crossed!!!!) Puffer ate again yesterday, not as much as before but not on diet either so good enough for now plus he is swimming around a lot more and more interested in surroundings. I'll try to get some pics and post them.

[cobra1713]

thats good, now with marine does it help to raise the temp like you would with freshwater or not? i remember i raised my temp to 86 and used the ich attack, and still lost the plecos. (then again i couldnt do pull doses being a scalsess fish and all.

[Pufferpunk]

Raising the temp does not help (& can harm) with SW 'ich". It is not actually the same parasite as ich at all, it's crypt.

[indigo]

Good to know, so far my tank's temp is at a stable 80. I still alternate a couple of hours off and on for the skimmer and i kept an extra airstone going near his fav. cave for good measure plus all filters as said before. I'm really hoping for the best. yes he still has some spots but gill movement better and activity level way up

[The Bruce]

hyposalinity has worked for me everytime, no need to buy a thing, as long as you already have a hospital tank

[cobra1713]

now just by the name i presume that is just adding the fish into a very high salinity and killing off the parasites?

im guessing drip acclimation to something like 1.030?

[indigo]

i also give the puffer a fresh water (RO) dip alternate days which he isn't mad about but all helps. The hyposalinity should have worked but the puffer wasn't real happy or active at all even with buffering of the ph etc. When he was in hypo he kept lying on his side with his mouth open, now he is swimming around and eating well again. Ah the mystery of individual marine fish Its definately a longer road with the organic stuff with plenty of extra water changes and as i said i had mixed results before but for now seems to be doing what it should so going to keep going for the next while. I ordered a gallon of the stuff on line from Marine depot after the small bottle i had seemed to be working. Lets hope i don't need it all

[t1gerbee]

now just by the name i presume that is just adding the fish into a very high salinity and killing off the parasites?

im guessing drip acclimation to something like 1.030?

hyposalinity is the opposite.. you reduce the salinity to 1.009 .. which causes the cysts to explode...

used it one both my puffers that ca,me to me with very bad ich.. have taken one puffer through it twice as he got a re-occurance (didn't do hypo for long enough the first time)

It's worked well on both...

Buffering is the most important thing with it, as reducing the salt can cause the pH to crash...

wonder why it's not working in this case? ....


Hope you find a solution, as puffers are the best fish ever.

[cobra1713]

off topic but how long do you usually have to soak them in the hyposalinity water to treat for ich, and can you do it with most fish?

[t1gerbee]

off topic but how long do you usually have to soak them in the hyposalinity water to treat for ich, and can you do it with most fish?

you don't soak them in hypo water ie a dip ... you leave them in it for 6- 8 weeks... it's essentially keeping them in brackish water for a couple of months to make sure all the ich has gone...

I believe there is an article in the library on salt water ich and more detailed explanation on hypo...

As for what fish, i believe all marine fish will tolerate it.. correct me if i'm wrong here someone..?

[cobra1713]

oh wow i didnt realize marine fish could stand that SG for that long but i guess it makes since, its better than ich.

[Puffer Queen]

Just a few things to keep in mind when treating ich:
1. Never use any medications in a tank with substrate, live rock, inverts, etc....these are porous and can absorb medications thus making achieving a therapeutic level impossible. There is also the chance that the medication can be leached back at a later time and cause toxicity.

Performing hyposalinity in a tank with live rock, substrate can cause microfauna to die off and have a serious impact on water quality.

2. Skimmers, UV sterilizers, ozonizers need to be OFF during medication additions....they can alter the chemical properities and can lead to serious problems.

3. Organic treatments have not proven to be effective - if they list the ingredients (most don't) - one will often find amazing things - for instance one uses hot sauce!

4. Many use these "reef safe" or "organic" treatments and the spots disappear in 3 - 5 days and hobbyists state "my fish are cured"....unfortunately this is not true as the life cycle of the parasite is it will feed on the fish for 2 - 5 days and drop off (with or without these) and become the cyst stage which hatches out in a few days to become the free swimming stage of the parasite. These two stages are not visible !

5. Switching back & forth between treatments is stressful and can lead to resistant strains. I would recommend one treatment and treat for the appropriate length of time. IE: hyposalinity at least 4 - 6 weeks, copper 2-4 weeks.....

6. DO NOT raise the temp to treat ich in saltwater tanks. Increasing the temp decreases the oxygen level in the tank. Fish with ich have parasites in the gills which impair the fish's ability to breathe....they breathe harder/faster which increase the metabolic rate which increases the fish's need for oxygen....this is a viscious cycle. Raising the temp can speed up the life cycle by a couple days but at the expense of depriving your fish of oxygen.

7. Freshwater baths need to be at least 15 - 30 minutes in duration in order to dislodge parasites....once the bath is over, if you return the fish to the previous tank and it has not been treated (or being treated) for parasites, the fish will become reinfected.

8. Anytime there is disease - there is associated stress. Increased aeration in the tank is essential.

Hope these help.