GSP seizures?

[suncoastfish]

Your good bacteria lives on surfaces, not in the water column. I do 90% weekly on many of my tanks--discus breeders do 100% daily on theirs.

Not to disagree, but that's news to me. Been raising discus for close to 10 years, know close to 150 other breeders/hobbyists and have participated/assembled numerous shows in Florida for discus breeders over the last 5 years and I know for a fact that no one I've met changes the water that much for their discus. Now, we do cycle the water at the breeding facility at least twice a day through specialized water filters to help remove the levels of nitrates and ammonia that are damaging, but have NEVER done 100% water changes *daily*, nor have I heard of it.

I guess this is part of that "psychological trick" people like to push out there to make people think that discus are hard to raise, I find them way easier than my collection of puffers (fw and bw - 72 specimen) to keep.

In my humble opinion, people excessively change their water because of their lack of understanding how to efficiently monitor their tanks stability, which creates frustration because people can feel burdened by their tank responsibilities (having to work a second job almost just to keep things running the way some suggest). My private puffer (fish) room at my home has 3200 gallons of water, depending on the tank and species of puffers, I do water changes every other week. Obviously some puffers require more, based on their dietary needs and how feedings can effect water stability.

Now - after reading around here - I know what most people on this forum would say, "Well, then your fish are not going to live as long and be as healthy as they could be...", of course that'd be an interesting statement considering I have 3 GSP's that I bought from a Fish farm 10 years ago and they were adolescents when I got them (I'd say 2 years old already) and are still thriving, I lost my first GSP last year (had him 9 years, was 5" when I got him). There are more dangers and mistakes that people make with these fish than missing water changes... like buying them to begin with thinking they are like goldfish and are easy to care for - which is extremely stupid. People should read about them, and if they buy them and can't take proper care of them should take them back to the store where they'll have a fighting chance and possibly fall into the hands of someone who can give them the necessary care.

Also, since we're on the subject of tank size. GSP's can EASILY live in 20 gallon long tanks by themselves, I've put 3 of them in 55 gallon breeders numerous times and never had any issues, and if it weren't for the fact that I needed their tanks for breeding pairs of puffers, would still have them today (gave them to friends or family after they fell for their spellbinding little personalities and those incredible eyes), all of which are still alive and healthy today.

I've found that (almost excessively) creating hiding spaces for these fish reduce loads of stress and prevents them from nipping their tank mates, my tanks look VERY crowded (90% of my tanks are planted with tons of driftwood and caves for them to hide, also are placed in custom wood cabinetry/panelling) but my fish outlive their life expectancy. There's a lot of good info on this website about keeping them, I can see how it'd be a great starting point, but I'm definitely on the side of slowing down the importation of these fish altogether - my apologies about the passive-rant.

Lastly, to add my comments on these puffers having seizures... never heard of such, never even seen any species of puffer (only keep fw and bw species) go into seizures.

Well, that's my .75c for what its' worth - will try to be on this site more to help, handled tons of fish ailments and can indentify 90% of the diseases (15) commonly effecting fish.

[Pufferpunk]

Thank you for your input. It's great to have such experienced fishkeepers adding to the conversation. A good friend of mine owns Chicagoland Discus. He keeps a constant water changer going on his tanks, so it's probably more than 100% daily WC.

Many folks here have kept their puffers easily into their teens, with the methods shared here.

[suncoastfish]

Thank you for your input. It's great to have such experienced fishkeepers adding to the conversation. A good friend of mine owns Chicagoland Discus. He keeps a constant water changer going on his tanks, so it's probably more than 100% daily WC.

Many folks here have kept their puffers easily into their teens, with the methods shared here.

I'm a hobbyist first, and a breeder second. My partner approached me 12 years ago about starting a fish farm, discus were *supposedly* one of the most difficult fish to keep and breed, so me (liking a challenge) chose them to breed. My partner runs everything, but I still keep my hands wet - no pun intended - in insuring we raise the highest quality, hardiest discus money can buy.

We are one of the main suppliers for 5D farms here in Florida, and I'd say #1 of the top 3 suppliers for Segrest Farms of Discus. Our fish are viewable at many of the zoos who have (Lowry Park Zoo ofTampa, FL, who has a 600 gallon planted discus tank, Oregon Zoo of Portland, OR, and many others...) tanks in different recreation areas for their guests enjoyment. We supply close to 2500 pet shops each week and 300 private hobbyist show-quality discus each month.

(Well, I don't. I'm just the bean counter!)

That's a little of what we do, we try to help the community when we can and I jump at the opportunity to change people's perspective of discus even at the risk of having to charge less because of increased demand. Common sense is a good practice and makes child's play of keeping them.

Lastly, I can see how most any fish could live a long, healthy life by simply caring for them properly. Mimicking their habitat in the wild, added with the fact that we can provide a constant source of the necessary vitamins and minerals needed, will definitely result in them living much longer than they would in the wild. Of course again, I think they need to slow down the importation of GSP's. I swear, I'm surprised at times they even live through the entire process the way they treat them, if it wasn't for the strong drugs they give them I know they wouldn't.

[t1gerbee]

i think once the tanks are established and cycled there is no need to do huge water changes..

the point here is this is an uncycled tank.. so it needs massive water changes to avoid ammonia build up.

Once the tanks are established the amount/frequency of water changes required will depend on stocking/feeding ratio.. but i guess a general rule of thumb helps guide those inexperienced with fish.


As for discus, i thought the issue was less about pollution, and more about water softness, as I believe they need very soft water and most tap water (in the UK at least) is much harder.. meaning you have to keep them in RO water.. making them seem considerably harder to maintain in the eye of the fishkeeper..

[Pufferpunk]

Since most of our local discus comes from places like suncoastfish's discus farms & my friend's basememt breeding facility, they are already used to living in local tap water, which is what they were hatched in.

[t1gerbee]

that's cool, only seen them sold in RO water in the Uk.. have no idea where they are bred though...


how's the puffers samgram?