Figure 8 and GSP

[cuteyiddlepuff]

I went to the fish store and bought a Figure 8 and a GSP. They are getting along fine right now. However, I may separate them in the future. They were in freshwater at the pet store, that's what they are in now. I read that they are fine in FW when they are younger but when they get to 2' they need BW. Is it okay for me to have a Figure 8 and GSP in the same tank? I also have a Botia in the tank. They are in a 20 gal tank. They're eating frozen bloodworms (I know they need snails too). When can I start feeding them snails? Are they too small? They are about 1 to 1 1/2 inches. Thanks for the advice.

[Nick]

They can live in fresh water for a few weeks, tops. I don't think the botia will appreciate the salt much. There is no such thing as too small for snails, if you find snails small enough.

[julianchan]

The Figure 8 and GSP will do alright together, as far as water goes, for quite a while...figure 8's are on the low brackish scale of things, and a GSP will eventually have to be in SW by the time it hits 4". On the getting along side of things...well, I think that depends on your puffers. Good luck!

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, loaches prefer acidic soft water, not hard BW.

[cuteyiddlepuff]

My LFS (that has a good reputation) gave me the wrong info . They said they're FW puffers but I guess they do that for sales. I'm going to move the Botia to a 10 galloon FW by himself by this w/e. Then I'm going to start adding marine salt to their aquarium. I'll do it over spanned out a couple hours so they don't get shocked. They are good with each other now by the time they get more aggressive I'll seperate them. I don't want them to die they are such sweetie pies. Is there anything I should measure besides the salinity, PH, and temperature to have the proper water parameters?

[bazil323]

Don't forget to mix the salt with freshwater in another container before you add it to the tank! If you try adding it directly to the tank, the unmixed salt will actually hurt the fish (burning gills, etc). Don't raise the SG by more than 1.002 per week. If you raise it too quickly the bacteria won't have time to adjust, and you'll end up having to cycle your tank again, which is very bad for puffers. Many don't survive the cycle.

You also need to measure ammonia and nitrites. These two are the most important for considering waste as they are highly, highly, highly dangerous to fish. Also measure nitrates. Most people try to keep their nitrates under 25 ppm.

Another note, the F8 will appreciate 20g to him or herself, and the GSP needs at least 30 gallons by itself. GSPs also move into marine conditions as adults. I'm not sure exactly how big they need to be at that point. Check out Pufferpedia for both. (At the top of the page hover over Learn and click on PufferPedia. They are under brackish. F8=tetraodon biocellatus and GSP=tetraodon nigroviridis.

[cuteyiddlepuff]

I got marine salt today and a hydrometer. I'll make sure to dissolve the salt in FW first and then add it slowly over a week, no more than 1.002 increase each week. I'll start after I get Mr. Loach in a new tank. I'm going to keep my Figure 8 in the 20 gallon and get a 30 for my GSP. I got them snails and they were going crazy. The GSP is actually closer to 2' now. The Figure 8 is a piggie, after eating snails and bloodworms I put my pinkie in the tank and he wanted to eat it! Thanks for the help hopefully the transition goes well.

[mandibabe]

Don't forget to mix the salt with freshwater in another container before you add it to the tank! If you try adding it directly to the tank, the unmixed salt will actually hurt the fish (burning gills, etc). Don't raise the SG by more than 1.002 per week.

Explain to me more on the SG I am still learning.

[cuteyiddlepuff]

I don't know if this is true but when I went to my lfs the guy told me that when I do water changes DON'T add more salt. Also, last night I was trying to figure out how to use a hydrometer! It was reading that there was a 1.004 level SG when it should be at 1.000. I set up another aquarium for my GSP. It's 29 gallons they didn't have a 30 gallon tank. So far I added cycle by nutrafin and water conditioner. The temperature is 78 which is perfect. I'm worried about cycling, does this product cycle really work? If so how long does it take? I don't have access to a filter for a running tank but I used one that I had stored from a previous tank so it doesn't have any bacteria. I wonder if I should go out and buy Biospira because that's kept cold which means it's actual live bacteria. If I test my levels and it shows zero nitrates and ammonia but a low level of nitrates does that mean it's cycled? I'm going out tonight to buy the rest of the stuff I'm going to get testing strips for freshwater/saltwater so I can use it after the transition. I'm also going to get aragonite to keep the PH up. Also, I was reading reviews of cycle and one person says they dump the whole bottle in, anyone try this? If I put cycle into my other tank that has the puffer will this harm them? I just read that Bio spira takes 3-7 days but with what I've already used in my new tank I'm not sure I can add it. I wonder if I should dump the water and start over again.

[cuteyiddlepuff]

I'm still researching according to this article on GSP you can add the fish immediately after Bio Spira:

http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:Cd ... cd=1&gl=us

"You can also "instant cycle" with Bio-Spira. You need to add your fish immediately after adding these live bacteria to your tank."

Also, it wouldn't be safe to use any of these products while fish are IN the tank (spefically puffers because they have no scales).

[julianchan]

I'd recommend getting a liquid test kit, its more accurate.

If you do get bio-spira, you need to add your fish in immediately, as the bacteria will die if it does not have ammonia to feed it.

As to if your tank has cycled, well, how long have you been cycling for, have you read the article on fishless cycling here on TPF?

As far as not adding salt during a WC, that is not right, if you dont, your SG will drop. Dont add salt if you are just topping off. If your meter is reading 1.004 with no salt in the water, test it in distilled water, if the reading is still 1.004, then there is something wrong, you should probably read 1.004 as 1.000. You might want to think about a refractometer for checking SG. I was just given one for my birthday, and it works like a charm.

[cuteyiddlepuff]

Thanks for the quick response
I tested the 20 gallon tank they are in now. Ammonia- it's at the lowest on the scale. The nitries were also at the lowest on the scale. The PH was 8. For the new tank 30 gallon, I put Dr. Tim's Aquatics (the same man who made Bio Spira started his own company) in and aragonite and a few plants. The plants were from a fully cycled fish tank with a puffer in it at the pet store. After ading the aragonite I did a 50% water change. I have two filters going in that tank! Both of them are eating fine BUT the GSP has a pinched stomach so I think he has a parasite, I didn't get him fat so I have to nurse him back to health. The F8 is very healthy and fat looking. I bought a BETTER hydrometer it's a glass device that also has the temperature. The other one was such a piece of crap, my bf tried it and it came out 1.004 for him too. I'm not going back to that pet store they sold me a crappy hydrometer, told me to use aquarium salt (I DIDN'T buy that I bought marine), and don't ad salt to the water with water changes (which brings salinity down-BAD) and then he had an abrupt attitude with me, like a know-it-all. I also spotted an Aquarium magazine on my way out of ANOTHER lfs that has an article on making the change from FW to SW (eventually SW for the GSP when he hits 4') so I'm going to pick that up. I'm going to move GSP asap and I'm cycling with Dr. Tim's, I have to start treating him for parasites.

[julianchan]

The Dr Tims stuff works the same way Bio Spira does, once you pop it in, the fish need to go in, or the bacteria dies. I cycled one of my tanks with the stuff, works pretty much the same as bio spira. So if you have not put your fish in and have already put in the Dr Tims Aquatics, then chances are your bacteria has already died. Seeing Ammonia and nitrites at 0 does not show that a tank is fully cycled, you normally will see a spike in ammonia, then nitrites as the bacteria establishes itself....barring of course you have actually added fish when the bacteria goes in, then, i can understand a reading of 0 and 0, otherwise a reading of 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites just means nothing has happened at all. I guess a sign of a cycled tank in this case would be if your nitrate levels are going up, or if they just remain stagnant.

Good luck with your GSP, I hope he gets well very soon!

[cuteyiddlepuff]

Thanks
UPDATE: VIDEO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTEwzL4Sawg
I put my GSP in his new 29 gallon last night after adding the bacteria. He's doing well (not very happy with me but loves his new tank), I went out and bought him more decorations and plants. He looks very happy. I got anti-parasite food for him (soaked it and gave it to him-would not touch it). Then I got some Parasite clear so I'm soaking his food in that. I also have a snail tank for him and am feeding THEM the anti-parasite food so he'll indirectly eat it. He'll do way better in his own tank my Figure 8 was a trouble maker and ate all his food and he would get mad but they never had an altercation. I have a 20 gallon set up next to his and he kept trying to get out and swim in the other tank. He is a messy eater, I plan to get something to clean the bottom of my tank but not a fish and something that can survive in the same water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTEwzL4Sawg

[Pufferpunk]

You're a fast learner. Be sure to check out all the great articles in our Library. New F8 article coming out there soon.