ammonia reaction?

[side19]

ok so i checked my f8's water this morning and everything seemed fine (ammonia <.25 nitrites and nitrates at 0) and he was acting just fine. then when i came home he was swimming weird (having trouble swimming) his mouth was gaping open and he was puffed up. i tested the water and the pH had raised about .4 from this morning and the ammonia raised to .25. i did a 25% water change to get rid of the ammonia (wiling to do more of a change if you think it will help) and replaced it with new water. i just did the change about 5 minutes ago so i haven't noticed any immediate improvement but will continue to watch him through out the night. do you think this was becuase of the ammonia spike? or could it have been the sudden increase in pH? and what could have caused this sudden increase? any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Bonsai_girl]

Nitrites and ammonia are both very damaging to fish - you need to get them both down to 0 asap. It could be a number of things causing the F8 problems, but the water is the very first thing to rectify.

Have you checked the water parameters since doing a water change? Let us know what the readings are now.

I'd be doing between 50-80% water changes, as many times a day as it takes, just to get the ammonia and nitrites down.

It's unlikely to be the pH as fish can handle those swings far better than ammonia or nitrite.

If you think he's having trouble breathing, add an airstone if you can.

[side19]

ok after the first 25% the ammonia dropped to less than .25 but more than zero (my kit can't read between the two) and the nitrates/nitrates are both at zero. just did an additional 45-50% change but haven't gotten readings yet. he isn't gasping as much but is still havign some issues swimming, he got stuck to my filter intake but i knocked him loose and he's swimming around the bottom at the moment, his mouth is still wide open but he's not gasping as much anymore. i'll post teh level as soon as i get them.

[Nick]

getting the ammonia out of their blood takes some time, keep testing water aften and change water as many times a day as it takes.

[side19]

ok. how long does it take for the ammonia to get out of their blood? and do you think he might haev gotten enough to be a lethal dose? or just enough to make him sick?

[Nick]

You won't know until enough time has passed if it was too much or not. It can take hours to get out entirely, especially in a tank that is still producing ammonia. Make sure there's no rotting food in the tank and that he's only fed very lightly during this new tank period.

[side19]

ok i did a third water change (another 25%). the reading after the 50% were the same as before except that the ammonia had dropped to almost 0 (it was yellow with a very very slight hint of green in it meaning it was almost at zero). he actually seems to be swimming stronger now (he's been able to break free of the filter intake three times in a row now as opposed to needing to be knocked loose) and actually seems to be enjoying the water changes (he chases the bubbles formed by the water flowing into the tank from the filter and from me pouring the water in from the jug and playing in the bubbles from my air tube). his colors are very bright now though after all of the water changes and he seems in more control of his movement now. as far as food there's about a dozen small pain in the butt snails from freshwater plants (the type that hitch hike a ride from live plants to your tank and then breed like crazy) and they're actually thriving in his tank. he only has touched one as far as i can tell and he only took one bite out and left it alone after that. i never seen him really bother them but i've only had him for two days and i've been gone most of today (in Rhode island for a 4th of july party with my girlfriend). i'll check the level again in a couple of minutes to let the water cycle and even out but i'm hoping they'll be at 0 now (from the pattern i've seen so far they should be). i'm hoping he didn't get a lethal dose.

[Nick]

If his breathing and strenth are improving, he's probably going to be ok. Just make sure that you do a nice 50% change anytime you see ammonia in the tank or him struggling to breath.

[Pufferpunk]

Did you cycle this tank before adding the puffer?

[Nick]

If I remember correctly he thought he did, using Stress zyme, not realizing it's generally dead and inactive by the time it reaches consumers.

[side19]

Nick's right, i used stress zyme not realizing its normally dead. i had used it before and it worked fine for my freshwater tank but i guess that time was a fluke. i think he's not gonna make it. he was acting fine last night but now he's pretty much floating upside down getting pushed around by the currents in the water. is there any hope left for him? the ammonia is at 0 now and so are nitrites and nitrates. is there any hope left for him? or is it just a matter of time now?

[side19]

ok i was just looking at my puffer and i noticed he is puffed up and he's perfectly upside down. i was wondering, i turned the bubbler on last night and he wasn't a strong enough swimming to fight its current and it kept pushing him up to the top. do you think his swimming issues might be becuase he swallowed air when he reached the top? if so how can you fix it? or do you think this is just him slowly dying from ammonia poisoning? he also has a dark grey ring around his stomach near his anal fin. i think its due to stress but i thought that would make his whole stomach dark.

[Pufferpunk]

I have had puffers live through 3 tank crashes, making the ammonia >8 & the nitrite >5. In all 3 cases. I did 80% water changes 2x/day, to keep the toxins down. I used Bio-Spira all 3x to cure the problem (after I corrected the cause).

It sounds like your puffer has air in it. See the article in our Library about fixing this.