Aquarium Salt in Brackish Tanks?!?!?!?!?!?

[genetao]

I'm new to aquariums, and recently purchased an f8. For the past several weeks, I've been doing lots and lots of research online, and every source I've been reading upon states to use synthetic marine salt (e.g. Oceanic, Instant Ocean, etc.). So that's what I've been using since it closely matches what they'd have in their natural habitat.

But just now, I stumbled upon this website stating to use aquarium salt INSTEAD OF marine salt!!!

http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pag ... ish_p2.htm

(Scroll a third of the way down to the fifth "Customer's Comments" and the reply that comes after that.)

They state that they have less deaths when switching from marine salt to aquarium salt. I found this to be most intriguing indeed.

The website states:

We tried putting Aquarium Salt in the water with our Brackish Water Fish, and they seemed to do much better. We have regularly checked the summaries of our data, since we switched from the synthetic sea salts to Aquarium Salt, and the summaries show that the statistics for our Brackish Water Fish have greatly improved.

So what do you guys think? Have you ever tried such an experiment? I'd love to hear your comments. It's an interesting topic, but I don't think I'll ever try doing that. Don't wanna risk my puffer's health. Besides, why mess with a good thing?

[Woland]

It is silly...

Although; the main content of aquarium salt is usually;;; salt...

The content declaration of the dominating European product Ektozon is as follows:

Each 100 grams contains

Natrium perboricum, 580 mg
Magnesiumperoxid, 58 mg
Kalium chloricum, 97 mg.
The rest is NaCl.

Kinda expensive fun with salt...

[Nick]

I think it's incorrect analysis, for a number of reasons. Note: I did not read their article. Probably the reason they had the losses with marine salt was simply not acclimating the fish slowly enough. My store does not acclimate most new arrivals, they are dumped through a net and tossed into tanks. Simply not time with that many fish. I think this is what most stores do, either a float acclimation or none, except with expensive fish. Now, if they dump a brackish fish that has been shipped in fresh water or water with aquarium salt into a tank that's been made brackish with marine salt, a big PH jump occurs, and this leads to deaths. If they make their brackish water with aquarium salt, no PH jump, and no deaths; when just acclimating to salt differences, honestly you can "plunk" a fish from FW to SG 1.006 and they'll almost always be fine. This "experiment" is tried all the time by stores that sell people GSP with aquarium salt, like FW, if they're young, it's ok for a few months, then health starts degrading due to lack of trace minerals. I doubt most fish sellers have theirs around for more then 3 months to see this problem, or at least, hopefully they don't have theirs around in crowded store conditions for that long.

[cobra1713]

This "experiment" is tried all the time by stores that sell people GSP with aquarium salt, like FW, if they're young, it's ok for a few months, then health starts degrading due to lack of trace minerals.

good point with the GSP

i was one of those idiots that used aquarium salt for a while, and brakish fish will seem to do fine for a while....

it's the trace elements. they might be able to survive but not thrive, the aquarium salt just makes the SG go up but doesnt make it more like salt water.

The beauty of brakish fish is that they can survive in both salt and fresh, so putting them in the wrong salt doesnt kill them right away, they can survive for quite a while. the PH shock is definitly the culprit for deaths of switching to and from real and fake brakish.

[genetao]

I see your point Nick. In fact, on their website, they state:

"We don't talk too much about pH in this web site. We've found that many beginning aquarists are too concerned about pH, and it distracts them from other more important factors. But synthetic sea salts do increase the pH, and a higher pH makes ammonia more toxic to fish. Aquarium Salt does not change the pH of water."

So they indeed acknowledge the fact that synthetic sea salts does increase pH, but its that increase which increases the toxicity of the ammonia? If that's the case, then it sounds like to me that the tank that the fish were put in wasn't properly cycled.

It just irks me that a website that's supposedly dedicated to the sale and care of fish would give out some misinformation on how to care for fish and recommend using aquarium salt for brackish tanks.

[Happy_Puffer]

I used to use aquarium salt in my tank until I found out that wasn't good. I have lost 4 fish to that, I now have my fish in water with marine salt and they are much better. Its the same tank just different salt and I have been able to keep my gsp in there for 3 weeks now where as before I would lose the fish within a week to a week and a half. I felt so terrible about loseing fish but now I hope I am doing better by the fish. Where I used to work we would float the bags for as long as we could like 2 to 3 hours and then open the bags and add the tank water to the bag and let it sit there for at least 15 mins and then we would add them to the tank. By doing this we hardly ever lose fish and with salt water its even longer and we turn out the light and we don't let anyone get fish from the tanks until the fish are happy in the bag and then we don't mess with the tanks for at least an hour after they are out of the bag. We always have to tell people that we can't mess with salt water fish and if they want one they have to wait or can come back. I love our store since we really care about our fish and I wish every fish store did this.

[Nick]

I don't think they are giving misinformation intentionally. I just think that they are misinterpreting which problem they solved in their stocking tanks - the fish were responding poorly due to PH shock when they were using marine salt, so using aquarium salt, which doesn't affect PH, was actually saving the fish, and as a retailer, they were not having the fish long enough for them to start suffering from the deficits found in the use of aquarium salt.

[genetao]

You would think that as a fish retailer, that it would be in their best interest to study up on proper fish care to not only reduce their losses with fish dying, but also in giving fish good conditions and selling healthier fish, the buyers would also win in this situation, and go home with happy, healthy fish. Which in turn fosters customer loyalty to that retailer, continuing to buy more fish/supplies etc. Its a win-win-win situation (counting the fish of course).

The idea of making a quick buck where the retailer just does the easiest thing, doesn't research the requirements of the fish they're selling, and simply pour in some aquarium salt is simply tragic. Sure they may make a quick buck, but in the end, due to their lack of knowledge or care, everyone loses.

If only there were more people who actually cared in this world.....

[side19]

i find this very interesting myself. i went to my lfs where i got my f8 and i asked them many questions about care for puffers before making a purchase and i asked about salinity, and the person i spoke with said that for the f8 that i should not use marine salt, but standard aquarium salt. i trusted his advice as he has been extremely informative before and has always been right up to this point. I'm planning on getting some marine salt after the holiday weekend because of all i have read about needing marine salt, but is it really nessicary, and then to add onto this fact I've read of account of f8's being kept in both freshwater and brackish successfully, so will a short stint in standard aquarium salt hurt him very much?

[Nick]

It won't hurt him, but it will not extend his lifespan or prevent secondary infections the way real marine mix made brackish water does. Most "sucessful" FW figure 8's live 3-5 years, while successful brackish figure 8's live their full lifespan of 12 to 16 years. Read my comment above genetao's for why I think retailers often have this experience with brackish fish and why it doesn't translate over to home care.

[side19]

ok thanks. i'll get some marine salt asap then.

[nrdr92]

i too have been given the same advice from the pet shop,and have been using aquarium salt,is it now safe to start adding marine salt,my gsp's are about 2 and a half inches long(i have 2)and they seem to be doing well,the sg in my tank is about 1.002,is that ok?,what should it be?,and how should i add the marine salt?,quite new to this,so any advice would be much appreciated,thanks for looking,dave

[Nick]

At 2.5 inches long, they should have an SG of around 1.008, about 1/3 seawater. Aquarium salt is better than nothing at all at low SG, but they will need the marine salt as soon as possible. When you do water changes, use marine rather than aquarium salt pre-dissolved in the change water, and the transition will go smoothly for your puffers. Don't increase the SG too much at once, .002 per week is recommended to make totally sure you don't damage the biofilter.