;_;

[Content2Swell]

Friday I went to my lfs looking for a skimmer for a friend who wants to start a SW tank, and I saw that they had crammed all of the DPs they had left into one of those 1 gallon (maybe, looked less) betta office tanks. Usually they sell the 'pea puffers' for around $10 apiece but they have had these ones for maybe a couple of months now (I believe. I'm going by when I bought mine from their sister store. I know they don't get them in very often bc apparently they don't sell very well here) and I KNOW they have only been feeding them on flake food. I've tried talking to the people (at both stores) about this and usually they blow me off or antagonize me (I've commented on this on the thread criticizing our LFSs). Only one bothered to act like he was listening to me, the one that was there on Friday, and I don't know if he was just humoring me or not, but thanks to their negligence, my point had been made.
They had marked down their DP to $3 and stuck them on the checkout counter (something they do with fish they are obviously trying to clearance off) and that is how I found out that they still had any in.
They were all horribly emaciated! My mouth fell open and I swear I thought I was going to cry. That's when someone asked if they could help me and I remember just looking at him and saying "You've only been feeding these on flakes." I didn't even ask. I bought two, but he dropped one on the floor and so only charged me for one. I felt so guilty about leaving the rest there that yesterday I went back and bought all that they had left.
Now I have 10 DP in an emergency tank (it is actually a plastic storage unit) with a heater, some moss, and an airstone. The first evening I put in some frozen bloodworm mix and started to cry as I watched them trying to eat it. They hardly had any strength to even nibble at it. This morning I tried putting in a bit more but it was mostly ignored. I put in some pellet food that had been soaked in garlic juices (the pellets are supposed to have IP meds and vitamins in them) but those are being ignored too.
I tried taking some pictures, and the larger ones swam towards the flash. Most of my fish have ever swam away from it.
The pics that came out clear enough are of the 'better' looking fish. They don't show to enough of a degree just how sad a state these fish are in. Most of them are so thin that you can almost see through them, and their spines are bent into an S shape. Some of them when I go to check on them are floating on their sides at the top, but they are still alive, just so weak! I try holding these gently under water until they are breathing a little better and they swim off. Should I not be doing this?
Is there a way to force feed DP? They are just so small, an eyedropper wouldn't even fit in their mouth...
I really dount that many of them will make it, but I can't not try.
Any advice any of you have is verymuch appreciated.

;_;.JPG

[Bonsai_girl]

I'm so glad someone posted something like this this weekend. I was going to post something very similar when I got back from a Maidenhead Aquatics yesterday. I know there's lots of advice around about not making mercy purchases, but I totally understand what you did.

I'm not sure if this'd help - and there are plenty on here much more experienced with puffers than I am, but you could possibly force-feed using a blunted hypodermic - you should be able to buy them online somewhere. The tip would at least be small enough for their mouths, much smaller than a syringe, but you'd still have to be very careful as even blunted needles can be sharp. I could try to find some links for you if you do go that route - I'm a pathologist, so familiar with medical supplies stores. I'll leave the fish advice to others on here

I'm absolutely like you in trying to save suffering animals - almost all of my pets are rescues, and yesterday after I'd been to Maidenhead Aquatics and saw the large GSPs crammed about 35+ strong into a 18x18 and the "very rare" £150 "pustulaus" with a deformed tail struggling with other fish in a 3ft long I spent the evening researching how much it'd cost to buy a tank big enough for a fahaka. To top it off I got into a row with one of the staff there over selling 1 large GSP and 3 small GSPs to someone who said they had a 54l tank currently housing another puffer of some form. So I don't think I'll be going to that branch to source my miurus somehow.

I really hope things work out for your DPs and you manage to pull at least some of them through.

Becs

[Redspotter]

OMG they are so emaciated. I would've probably do the same.
I really hope at least some of them will make it. I would try all sorts of frozen food. Artemia is something my puffers like very much. Just keep trying to let them feed.
I really hate it that people can be so cruel specially to fish because a lot of people think fish are just not worth worrying about

[Content2Swell]

I'm actually worried that they might not eat soon enough to last long enough to have the needles arrive in the mail.
And I don't know why, but no one seems to sell artemia around here.
Ironically, this is the store I always say that I would never buy from again, but they are also apparently the only store in the state that sells skimmers (at WAY too high a price, so I think I'm just going to bite the S&H and order one online). It was a fluke that I was even in there to see these guys. I don't usually try to do mercy buys as I really don't know enough about fish to make an accurate diganosis to try and cure; but this was obvious, and I knew I had the room to keep them. It was just put on my heart at the moment to do something, even if it doesn't work.
The girl at the counter (where the teenytinytank was) had to call someone to the front to get them out of the tank, but the guy she called was busy helping someone already so they had to call someone else. While we (my brother was with me att) were waiting she must have felt like she needed to make small talk bc she said that she would get them but she was afraid of making them puff (since I bought everything in the tank really they could have just poured it into a bag, rather than using a net at all). I made the offhanded comment that DPs don't puff very often and she started on a patronizing lecture about why it was so bad to let puffers puff and treating me like I was cruel (can you feel the frustration?) for implying that it didn't matter (and I noticed that she didn't have any qualms about using a net with puffers). I almost shot back with "Well they didn't puff when when (he) dropped them on the floor yesterday" but instead I just smiled. My friends tell me that when I smile you can tell that I am really angry, and it must be true bc she paled and walked off.
What bothered me the most is that about three different workers were at the counter at one point or other and noticed what I was getting, and not one of them seem bothered by the state the fish were in. As I was picking up the bag to leave one of them asked what I was going to do with them (I think he wanted to know what kind of setup I was going to put them in) so I said "Feed them".

[Bonsai_girl]

If you're willing to try the hypos, what about overnight delivery or even pop down to a pharmacy and try to get them there - you can buy them in the UK over the counter (i.e. if you're diabetic) and usually we have ridiculously stringent laws about these sorts of things so I'd've thought you could do the same in the States?

Also, what about chopped up earthworm?

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the large GSPs all had massive chunks ripped out of them.

[Nick]

I'd consider an IP treatment just in case, especially if they're only nipping at food. poor little guys. Live blackworms seem to be the easiest food for them to swallow, IME.

[Content2Swell]

The first of them has died. One that would have been a female, I believe. She had forced her way deep into the wad of moss that is floating in with them.
I've been looking over the body, and it is extremely frail. The skin is 'tacky', almost like a person's who is suffering from severe dehydration.
Something also, I have read that DPs don't have problems with teeth filing: this seems to be false. Her lower set is terribly long. I've tried to take a picture, but everything is so translucent that the flash goes right through and you see a white blur in my hand.
The only live food I can get here is bloodworms, and I don't like feeding live bloodworms anymore since a GSP has died eating them ( I realize most people never have/may never have a problem with feeding live bloodworms, but I don't do so anymore).
I am going to try and get a seamonkey kit tomorrow. I know they are not terribly high in nutrition, but it will be at least something in their tummy.
Right now I'm going to try and see about the rest of their teeth.

[Nick]

I think the high visibility of the teeth is due to emaciation, more than anything else. I was worried about this a bit too at first, but even when my DPs beaks became visible, they had no trouble eating the food offered. Normally I avoid them, but do they have live tubifex? They're VERY tiny and easy to swallow, and while dirty, are better than starving to death. If they are so weak they can only pick and bloodworms, I doubt they have the strength to eat anything that might wear their teeth, anyway.

[Content2Swell]

The ONLY thing they sell here live is bloodworms.
I only noticed the teeth once I was holding the one that had died. It looked to go up over her top lip.
However the teeth may affect them, I'm not going to do anything about it.
I tried doing the clove dip, using two cups, one with a drop of clove oil in water and one with tankwater. When I put it in with the clove oil (actually, I added the drop after it was in the cup) instead of rolling up as I had read in the posts, it immediately stopped breathing. I put it in the other cup and tried to wash the clove off it as best I could, but it is dead.
I had tried using one of the larger ones bc I thought it would be easier to handle and might handle the strain better, but I am just making a bad situation worse.
I feel horrible.

[Bonsai_girl]

You're most certainly NOT horrible! You're trying to do something the lfs had the responsibility to do, and I do not envy you one bit. You're doing an amazing thing, and it might lead to lots of heartache for you, but I'd do the same thing in your situ. I wish I had the set-up to save some of the GSPs at the lfs I mentioned previously, and if I can get the equipment I'll try.

And I also no longer feed bloodworm after I lost quite a few fish after a feed once several years ago.

How're the rest of the teeth?

[Content2Swell]

I'm afraid to try to do anythting to look. I'm afraid even to do water changes, as I don't want them to be too strained. I know they are not eating all of the food I put in the tank though. I try to get it back out but it is tiny peices of thawed algae/bloodworm, so most of it practically disentegrates after hitting the water.
I think they know that some of them have gone missing, the rest are hiding from me.

[Bonsai_girl]

Perhaps considering the situation you could put shrimp in there to clean up? As you feel the puffs aren't eating all the food, the shrimp could at least help with the water issue?

[t1gerbee]

you need to doing water changes...

is it a cycled tank.. can you put some cycled media in there...

you're never going to be able to save these fish without having perfect parameters..


good luck though, keep up the fight,

[Content2Swell]

I didn't say I wasn't doing water changes.
The point is that what is done, whether it is doing or not doing, is killing these fish.

[Bonsai_girl]

Ok, what's your biggest concern here? The water, possible IPs, the teeth...something else?

I think the only thing you can do is work through them one by one, highest priority first. What're the parameters at the moment?