Anyone kept these species in captivity?

[Callatya]

Hi there I'm new here and to puffers.

Puffers are a bit hard to find over here and I'm not a big fan of your traditional tropical marine setups and inhabitants so I've been attempting to construct a rockpool-style setup with locally collected (carefully and with a licence) species. I went out looking for crabs and prawns and within the first 10 minutes I'd netted these three tiny things, so all of a sudden I had a toadfish tank.

The thing is that these are... well they are generally regarded as a nuisance, not a pet. Most people who know of them are fishermen, and most fishermen feel that they are just bait-stealing menaces. People who aren't fishermen but know of them seem to have some very strange ideas, like the arm-flailing woman that was convinced I'd drop dead if I touched one to get it off my line. Yeeeeah. I've seen them stabbed, tossed onto dry land, rolled under shoes til they puffed - you name it, they cop it. Given this, they are not the sort of thing people would choose to have in their tanks, so they aren't sold and the information on them in captivity is iffy at best. I'm working of museum fact sheets which are fantastic if you want to do a school project on the fish, but fairly lousy when it comes to trying to care for them.

As best I can figure they get to 15-20cm (currently 4-4.5cm incl. caudal fin, teeny tiny!), are OK in groups (weeping toad is fine, the smooth toads looked a bit iffy at first but are now also OK... might not be ok when they get older but they do seem to group in the wild so maybe suck it and see?), and well, that is about all I know other than your basic puffer stuff like teeth and salinity and puffing etc, and given that puffers are not altogether common around here, let alone small brown wild caught ones with a bad reputation, I'm kind of winging it with that stuff too.

Does anyone here keep these species or know of anyone that does?
Is there a similar species that I could safely base my care requirements on?
Do you think I have my IDs correct?

[cobra1713]

wow they are interesting thats for sure.

what was the water like were you caught them?

the only species id say they resemble is maybe a GSP of some kind but im not that much into the different variations or anything so dont ask me to ID, but what i would do is just try and match your water as close to what you found them in, as far as salinity (if any). and as far as feeding, being a pufer you have a safe bet with bloodworms, brine shrimp, prawn, basically any kind of shelled fish food.

here is a good article on basic puffer feeding and im sure you could feed these the same.
library/feeding/feeding-your-puffers/

[Content2Swell]

Those are adorable! I wish they'd start importing them here...

[edmlfc1]

They are so cute. Good luck with the id's. I have never seen one like that. I can't belive people can be so rude to such cute fishies.

[manutius]

cool find, I think you have your ID correct buts very hard to tell, the front ones could be either Prickley toadfish, Contusus richei but more likely Chelonodon Patoca, the milk-spotted toadfish. The one at te back of the pic looks like a weeping toad yes Torquigener pleurogramma or maybe Torquigener perlevis, the spineless toadfish or Torquigener squamicauda, the brushtail toadfish.

I have used a refenrence book Aqualog- the puffers of fresh and brackish waters by Kluas Ebert for these id's see if you can track a copy down, or post a few more pics of the Torquigener species. Once we have a confirmed ID we can offer more help.

Have a look in the pufferpedia for chelonodon patoca care info

[Martin Hi.]

you lucky australians!
i would give everithing to get those!!!
the one behind is a torquigener spec. the ones in the front could be a contusus or a tetractenos (not sure about the species yet and no time to look...
but no chelonodon for sure!
good luck with them!
and if you should travel to germany some day and want to make some money...
martin

[Corvus]

I believe Callatya's IDs are correct.

Here is another T. glaber: http://www.scuba-equipment-usa.com/mari ... aber).html
Check for the typical red eyes.

Contusus I think (better check that) are limited to the temperate waters of the Southern Australian coast, Sydney should be too warm for them. Also I think (check that, too, no literature ATM) they do not have colored caudal fins like T. glaber does.

I think importing marine fish from Australia to Europe is possible, but expensive and a lot of documents are needed. You just need to find a wholesaler/exporter willing to ship, who can provide the desired fish and proper documentation. I know that live saltwater fish are exported from Australia to Japan frequently.

[Callatya]

Wow! thanks for all the replies!

I'll start at the top

They are from Bilgola Beach, about an hour north from Sydney city. It is a bit variable in salinity and temperature in that rockpool area, but generally could be called temperate marine. These guys were in a sandy tide pool area just to the right of the one in the picture. I think I may have disturbed them in the sand as they shot up out of nowhere!


This is the list I'm working from, nowhere near comprehensive though!
http://www.austmus.gov.au/fishes/fishfa ... fferfishes

The two front pictured puffers look nothing at all like the images when it comes to marking, but I'm thinking that the pictured fish is probably a mature adult which might have an impact on the size and distribution of the spots. The 3 dark stripes are in the correct places though (give or take the odd blotch), and the coloured caudal with the transparent/light edge seems to be a common feature.

I discounted T. hamiltoni based on the lack of a gill slit and that lower skin fold (the skin fold is pretty obvious in the ones I've seen, but again they have been considerably larger so it might just take a while to develop?). These also seem to have clear, narrower caudals.

Chelonodon Patoca, looking at a quick google image search (how reliable! ) looks to be a dark layer with small light spots, so the opposite colours to this species. The dorsal and anal fins also seem to have a more 'blocky' appearance.

I can't seem to find any good reference pics for the other species mentioned, but I did manage some *much* better photos of my spotted inmates so maybe that'll help clear things up They are awfully reflective! I'm still working on the other one, he's just too shiny


The below is the same fish just after coming out of the sand.(dark stripes are bleached out giving a better indication of spots)



Martin, I'm not due in Germany for a while yet, but I'll have a quiet word to our local importer and see how tricky it is, just in case it is ridiculously simple I think she ships vis Singapore.

[Happy_Puffer]

You caught those yourself? How cool I wish I could go catch puffers!! The only water around me is the lake of the ozarks and I don't want any blue gill hee hee!

[j_wishbone]

dey look awesome mate...

where did you catch em? on a sydney beach or something? no way.... on the rock pools?

Do you catch em regularly? I would love to get some of those...??


sorta looks like the one on the right? but yet look so different?

[Corvus]

My opinion: The ones by Callatya are T. glaber, the ones by j_wishbone are T. hamiltoni.

Here are other T. glaber with different size and accordingly color:
http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/F ... 1124072547
http://www.scuba-equipment-usa.com/mari ... glaber.jpg
http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/images/spe ... gla_u0.jpg


With regard to temperature, have a look at
http://www.marine.csiro.au/~lband/web_point/

The Southern coast has lower temperatures compared to the Sydney area. This Southern area is where the Contusus species comonly occur. Waters are generally considered as temperate, while Sydney can be called sub-tropical and the Northern coast truely tropical.

[j_wishbone]

[quote="Corvus"]My opinion: The ones by Callatya are T. glaber, the ones by j_wishbone are T. hamiltoni.

Here are other T. glaber with different size and accordingly color:
http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/F ... 1124072547
http://www.scuba-equipment-usa.com/mari ... glaber.jpg
http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/images/spe ... gla_u0.jpg

Some impressive ID-ing skills Corvus ..

what a beauty! dats still a great looking fish.. ! looks pretty awesome...

[j_wishbone]

Corvus (or anyone)

do you think this toadfishes are pure marine or have the ability to thrive in high end brackish..??

[Nick]

I think many marine fish will actually do ok in high end brackish, but nobody wants to spend that kind of money on water changes when they are so close to being able to run a skimmer and use LR.

[Corvus]

I totally agree with Nick.

If I was living near the sea I'd even consider using natural sea water.

Only for breeding purposes I'd experiment with lower salinities, but in that case lots of water changes will be necessarry anyway.