Hi all!
My name is Lawrence and I am new to this forum. I hope someone here can offer some advice and hopefully ease my mind.
I keep various fish in several tanks. One of these tanks is dedicated to some very healthy puffers. There are two dwarfs, two amazon, two figure eight, one green spotted, one topaz and a MBU.
The most recient adition was the Topaz and this is where my problem begins (I think).
All were eating well but two days after introducing the Topaz the MBU who used to eat like crazy stopped feasting the way he did. He used to swim up and catch the muscle like a dog catching a stick and would have a tug-of-war with the green spotted over food. But now he has stopped. I put the food in and he runs a mile from it. I haven't seen him with a full belly for about a week now. Other than that he is fine. Swimming around and playing in the bubbles. He has fantastic colouring and genuinly gets on well with all his tank mates. But I am worried about his loss of appitite.
Could it be because of the Topaz? There are no signs of any parasites or illnesses and the place for feeding has not changed.
Please help! I want to hear that he is fine, that it is normal, that all will be good. But am a little concerned that this won't be my reply.
I have even considered putting him into another tank, but the only one suitable has a ray, ghost knife and two skatty silver sharks and I don't want them to distress him.
Any advice or words of comfort would be very gratefully recieved.
Take care.
Lawrence.
MBU question
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Those are a lot of puffers for one tank. Further, they are not compatible with respect to water parameters.
Topaz & GSP go hand in hand for brackish to full salt water in maturity
F8s are in light brackish for their entire life
and the Amazon, mbu and DPs are in freshwater for their entire life.
I suggest splitting them up into appropriate tanks.
If you must here is how I'd split them up if I am running short on tanks:
-1 tank for the GSP, F8, & Topaz and keep it light brackish till you get another tank for the GSP & Topaz.
-1 tank for the DPs and the Amazon puffer
-and a seperate tank for the Mbu.
Read the sticky notes in the freshwater puffer forums & brackish puffer forums about your respective species. As far as the lack of appetite with your mbu, I am at a loss for advice.
Topaz & GSP go hand in hand for brackish to full salt water in maturity
F8s are in light brackish for their entire life
and the Amazon, mbu and DPs are in freshwater for their entire life.
I suggest splitting them up into appropriate tanks.
If you must here is how I'd split them up if I am running short on tanks:
-1 tank for the GSP, F8, & Topaz and keep it light brackish till you get another tank for the GSP & Topaz.
-1 tank for the DPs and the Amazon puffer
-and a seperate tank for the Mbu.
Read the sticky notes in the freshwater puffer forums & brackish puffer forums about your respective species. As far as the lack of appetite with your mbu, I am at a loss for advice.
Lawrence: Read this and answer the questions first so we can help determine why you are having problems and how you can help.
http://www.thepufferforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=5
I'm gonna let you know that your style of fishkeeping goes against the grain of a lot of opinions here, and you are going to get some answers you won't like and might not want to hear.
To everyone else: Wait til we have all the information before posting, and if you are going to post something negative, don't.
Geeze I can smell the flamewar on this already.
http://www.thepufferforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=5
I'm gonna let you know that your style of fishkeeping goes against the grain of a lot of opinions here, and you are going to get some answers you won't like and might not want to hear.
To everyone else: Wait til we have all the information before posting, and if you are going to post something negative, don't.
Geeze I can smell the flamewar on this already.
The rare and elusive SteelGeek has been known to cause great damage to his environs...
Hi there.
I am happy to hear all opinions, so far as fish keeping is concerned: I value any exert advice, take it on board then double check it as best as possible. I do not wish to offend anyone, believe me when i say that the fish are well cared for, have lots of space (probably too much regarding the puffers) and have been for a long time now.
1) I am unable to test the PH as I ran out at the end of last week and haven’t replaced it yet. But, the Ammonia = 0 Nitrite = 0 and the nitrate = 0.
2) The fish are fed at approximately 1830 every evening, with a break once a week on a Wednesday. The water is changed every Sunday morning, once a month this is about a 50% change, but usually it is around the 30%.
3) The only change to the tank was the addition of the Topaz, (only a small one, just over an inch long) and some more plants.
4) The tank was set up just under five years ago and it was left to stand for two weeks before having any fish in it, then there were about fifteen fish, nothing too exciting in it, I think they were neon rainbows, swordtails and phantom tetras. These lived in the tank for about 12 months; it was then turned into a tank for scats and mud skippers. As these didn’t require the same amount of space as puffers they were downgraded to a four foot tank and the larger one used to set up the puffers.
I know what you are saying an I hope not to upset anyone here, the fish are very closely monitored and very well cared for, I agree with was said about the water conditions, probably not ideal for those species to go together, but I have had nothing but success with keeping puffers, they have grown well, have excellent colouring, they swim about a lot and are right on the ball, very clever fish! If I had another large tank I would consider moving the MBU into it, but living in a 6 foot tank does him quite well seeing as he is only about 7� long.
I will get and test the Ph today and add this later to this thread.
Thank you for your advice, I hope I do not offend too many people here.
Yours.
Lawrence.
I am happy to hear all opinions, so far as fish keeping is concerned: I value any exert advice, take it on board then double check it as best as possible. I do not wish to offend anyone, believe me when i say that the fish are well cared for, have lots of space (probably too much regarding the puffers) and have been for a long time now.
1) I am unable to test the PH as I ran out at the end of last week and haven’t replaced it yet. But, the Ammonia = 0 Nitrite = 0 and the nitrate = 0.
2) The fish are fed at approximately 1830 every evening, with a break once a week on a Wednesday. The water is changed every Sunday morning, once a month this is about a 50% change, but usually it is around the 30%.
3) The only change to the tank was the addition of the Topaz, (only a small one, just over an inch long) and some more plants.
4) The tank was set up just under five years ago and it was left to stand for two weeks before having any fish in it, then there were about fifteen fish, nothing too exciting in it, I think they were neon rainbows, swordtails and phantom tetras. These lived in the tank for about 12 months; it was then turned into a tank for scats and mud skippers. As these didn’t require the same amount of space as puffers they were downgraded to a four foot tank and the larger one used to set up the puffers.
I know what you are saying an I hope not to upset anyone here, the fish are very closely monitored and very well cared for, I agree with was said about the water conditions, probably not ideal for those species to go together, but I have had nothing but success with keeping puffers, they have grown well, have excellent colouring, they swim about a lot and are right on the ball, very clever fish! If I had another large tank I would consider moving the MBU into it, but living in a 6 foot tank does him quite well seeing as he is only about 7� long.
I will get and test the Ph today and add this later to this thread.
Thank you for your advice, I hope I do not offend too many people here.
Yours.
Lawrence.
-
Jager
well everything info wise that you have given seems ok. as SG said tis very against the grain, but ill see if i can help with some ideas.
#1. Puffers do go on hunger strikes. buy adding in another fish, you have upset the hierarchy of the tank if you will, and until all of the fish are comfortable in their new positions (they may never and one may attack another, the topaz being the one that needs to be most watched.) also the mbu may be passing into another stage and needing to eat more food but spread out.
For my large puffers every 72-96 hours is fine and they are fed til their bellies are rounded, but not stuffed. you may try that to see what happens.
#2 enticing a puffer to eat is easy, try garlic extract. they go nuts for it and you may see the mbu eat due to that.
#3 I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but being in the wrong type water for a long time does have a cause and effect relationship with puffers health. it may be time for the mbu to be in FW. this one is harder to tell, but as afish gets bigger, its growth gets stunted and its immune system depressed because it has to work harder to live in a hostile osmotic balance. what i mean here is that freshwater fish do not drink water in. they have to let excess water go, as the salt in their bodies forces water to constantly go in and they flush it out. mbus are used to that. by having it in light brackish, it may be having to work too hard to maintain balance and is getting ill. (please post your salinity or specific gravity if you can, is very helpful as well.)
#4 the mbu has overgrown teeth or has lockjaw. overgrown teeth are fairly obvious as they grow out they literally keep the puffer from being able to open or fully close its mouth. you list that he is swimming fine, but try adding an iodine supplement to the water and see if that doest perk him up the iodine relieves lockjaw. (only do this if you see him trying to eat but is unable to open mouth or move it period.)
#5 another hierarchy issue. your mbu's personality may be very shy. he may need to be fed seperatly, after the other puffers. try feeding them first til they leave the food alone, then feed him. also try sectioning off the tank with the mbu on one side and feed him in peace. They are quite humanlike in their emotions and a shy puffer is not uncommon with a new tankmate that may be more active or agressive than he is.
#6 too many puffers. I know you have a 6ft tank, but what are the other dimensions? depth and height are needed as well. if there are too many puffers vying for space to sleep or space of their own they go on hunger strikes or even attack other puffers. please give plenty of spaces to swim but also loads of rocks and fake plants etc so that the puffers cannot see each other and the tank seems bigger in their eyes.
#7 the puffer has something wrong internally. parasites collapsed colons air in intestines constipation etc. there are many reasons why puffers get ill, but this is a last resort thing, doesnt sound like thats happening yet. if you see white stringy feces or reddish feces it has parasites.
#8 ph either too high too low or swinging too much. much like everything else, puffers are sensitive to ph shifts, but puffers show that by not eating and getting stressed. if your ph is not constant and at a healthy level you may have this happen too. i know you are gonig to post your ph, but figured id cover it as well.
hope this helps you take a few guesses at whats happening, post your numbers from your tests again and the other info i asked for and ill take another shot at helping.
#1. Puffers do go on hunger strikes. buy adding in another fish, you have upset the hierarchy of the tank if you will, and until all of the fish are comfortable in their new positions (they may never and one may attack another, the topaz being the one that needs to be most watched.) also the mbu may be passing into another stage and needing to eat more food but spread out.
For my large puffers every 72-96 hours is fine and they are fed til their bellies are rounded, but not stuffed. you may try that to see what happens.
#2 enticing a puffer to eat is easy, try garlic extract. they go nuts for it and you may see the mbu eat due to that.
#3 I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but being in the wrong type water for a long time does have a cause and effect relationship with puffers health. it may be time for the mbu to be in FW. this one is harder to tell, but as afish gets bigger, its growth gets stunted and its immune system depressed because it has to work harder to live in a hostile osmotic balance. what i mean here is that freshwater fish do not drink water in. they have to let excess water go, as the salt in their bodies forces water to constantly go in and they flush it out. mbus are used to that. by having it in light brackish, it may be having to work too hard to maintain balance and is getting ill. (please post your salinity or specific gravity if you can, is very helpful as well.)
#4 the mbu has overgrown teeth or has lockjaw. overgrown teeth are fairly obvious as they grow out they literally keep the puffer from being able to open or fully close its mouth. you list that he is swimming fine, but try adding an iodine supplement to the water and see if that doest perk him up the iodine relieves lockjaw. (only do this if you see him trying to eat but is unable to open mouth or move it period.)
#5 another hierarchy issue. your mbu's personality may be very shy. he may need to be fed seperatly, after the other puffers. try feeding them first til they leave the food alone, then feed him. also try sectioning off the tank with the mbu on one side and feed him in peace. They are quite humanlike in their emotions and a shy puffer is not uncommon with a new tankmate that may be more active or agressive than he is.
#6 too many puffers. I know you have a 6ft tank, but what are the other dimensions? depth and height are needed as well. if there are too many puffers vying for space to sleep or space of their own they go on hunger strikes or even attack other puffers. please give plenty of spaces to swim but also loads of rocks and fake plants etc so that the puffers cannot see each other and the tank seems bigger in their eyes.
#7 the puffer has something wrong internally. parasites collapsed colons air in intestines constipation etc. there are many reasons why puffers get ill, but this is a last resort thing, doesnt sound like thats happening yet. if you see white stringy feces or reddish feces it has parasites.
#8 ph either too high too low or swinging too much. much like everything else, puffers are sensitive to ph shifts, but puffers show that by not eating and getting stressed. if your ph is not constant and at a healthy level you may have this happen too. i know you are gonig to post your ph, but figured id cover it as well.
hope this helps you take a few guesses at whats happening, post your numbers from your tests again and the other info i asked for and ill take another shot at helping.
Hi there.
Thanks for the words of wisdom. Just for the record, the Ph is 7.2, .2 too high but I don't think it is that.
The dimensions of the tank are 6 foot (length) x 1.5 foot (bredth) x 2 foot (depth). It is a very well planted tank, pain as the plants don't like the salt, but I would rather keep buying plants than put in plastic. There are to walls of rocks stacked up so the puffers can swim in and out and find themselves little caves and there are two large bits of wood, one of which is home to the spotted puffer.
The salinity of the water is 1.001, but this drops to about 1.000 through the small water changes over the month, then is increased during the large change.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said " Puffers do go on hunger strikes. buy adding in another fish, you have upset the hierarchy of the tank " I feel that this may have been the issue as the Topaz is a lot more active than both the MBU and the Spotted. But not the amazons, however they are a smaller species and appear to be a bit more dim than the others so I don't think they upset him.
If need be he will have to move in with the skatty silver sharks, a little concern as he is a very calm and relaxed fish and I don't want him being stressed by them. It is a little bit smaller (about a foot in length).
I hope this information can help you to help me.
Thanks again.
Lawrence.
Thanks for the words of wisdom. Just for the record, the Ph is 7.2, .2 too high but I don't think it is that.
The dimensions of the tank are 6 foot (length) x 1.5 foot (bredth) x 2 foot (depth). It is a very well planted tank, pain as the plants don't like the salt, but I would rather keep buying plants than put in plastic. There are to walls of rocks stacked up so the puffers can swim in and out and find themselves little caves and there are two large bits of wood, one of which is home to the spotted puffer.
The salinity of the water is 1.001, but this drops to about 1.000 through the small water changes over the month, then is increased during the large change.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said " Puffers do go on hunger strikes. buy adding in another fish, you have upset the hierarchy of the tank " I feel that this may have been the issue as the Topaz is a lot more active than both the MBU and the Spotted. But not the amazons, however they are a smaller species and appear to be a bit more dim than the others so I don't think they upset him.
If need be he will have to move in with the skatty silver sharks, a little concern as he is a very calm and relaxed fish and I don't want him being stressed by them. It is a little bit smaller (about a foot in length).
I hope this information can help you to help me.
Thanks again.
Lawrence.
-
Jager
1.00 is FW and for all intents and purposes 1.001 is too....
as for ph i would like to see that maybe come up a bit. most if not all the puffers like harder alkaline water and all the ones you say you have are all falling into the 7.2-8.2 range with the best ph AVERAGE being 7.8 as the dwarf puffer and the F8 like 7.5-8.1 ish the mbu does mind too much between 6.5-7.8ish the topaz is a 7.5 ph though the ones ive kept liked 7.8 better.
JUst my opinion, but bring the PH up slowly and keep it at 7.5-7.8 and I thnk they will be happier.
glad we could help
as for ph i would like to see that maybe come up a bit. most if not all the puffers like harder alkaline water and all the ones you say you have are all falling into the 7.2-8.2 range with the best ph AVERAGE being 7.8 as the dwarf puffer and the F8 like 7.5-8.1 ish the mbu does mind too much between 6.5-7.8ish the topaz is a 7.5 ph though the ones ive kept liked 7.8 better.
JUst my opinion, but bring the PH up slowly and keep it at 7.5-7.8 and I thnk they will be happier.
glad we could help
-
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