I've taken 2 puffers from my girlfriend's place a month back and placed them in a 10g tank.
Off the bat, the 1 puffer died, by the time I figured out it was Ich, it had died. I didn't really research before taking care of it, but it was a quick instinct call. My girlfriend's community of labs and bala's did not like the figure eights so I pulled them into my empty tank.
Right now, I have the sole surviving f8. Yesterday he started sinking to the bottom of the tank. He would swim up a bit...then sink to the bottom and just.......stay there at the bottom. I have a bw tank.
Unfortunately I don't have all of the testing kits, I only got the NO2 and NO3 testers last week and have been trying to get those down with water changes.
NO2 - > 30
NO3 - 50 - 110 (scary levels)
I've been doing 25-50% water changes daily to try to get the levels down, but they haven't really gone down for 5 day's of water changes.
My hunch is water toxicity.......any other opinions? Help on how to clean the water fast? Thanks.
F8 Slowly Dying
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
Nick
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 3231
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:47 pm
- My Puffers: Mine:
GSPs - Shakespeare and Jillybean
F8 - Velvet
My fiance:
DP - Emma Goldman
Narrow Lined Puffer - Ulrike - Location (country): Northeastern USA
- Location: Middletown, CT
- Contact:
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
Big daily water changes should help with the levels, I'd recommend 50 to 75%, as this takes a much bigger bite out of the nitrites, which are very toxic. I'ts possible you have nitrates in your tap water, in which case they might not go down much, but ammonia and nitrite levels are much more critical.
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
-
t1gerbee
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:10 am
- My Puffers: 1 x Ceylon + 1 x GSP + 1 x stars and stripes (juv) -Marine
(Non puffs-)
4 x clowns
1 x Oscar-Tropical
3 x Convicts-Tropical
1 x Map Turtle-tropical
2 x Plecs-Tropical
2 x goldfish - Location: london
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
any nitrites in the water is lethal for the fish...
as Nick says, very large daily water changes are the only way through this...
was the tank cycled when you put the fish in?
as Nick says, very large daily water changes are the only way through this...
was the tank cycled when you put the fish in?
1 x 90G Juv stars and stripes puffer, Ceylon Puffer + GSP + 2 black clowns
1 x 30G LPS Reef
1 x 30G 1 x Blind goldfish
1 x 30G LPS Reef
1 x 30G 1 x Blind goldfish
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
I'm continuing the massive water changes daily. Right now, he's just bouncing at the bottom, breathing heavily and making some attempt to swim up.....but only drops back down. It's sad watching him wither like this.....
I tested my tap water and there are no traces of NO2 or NO3 in the water I'm using.
I cycled my tank without fishes, I put in Instant Cycle and left my tank just run for almost a week before I added my first set of fishes. It was a rush or flush situation so I'm not sure if it cycled properly. There was a threat of flushing the poor puffies because they were disturbing the original community there.
I tested my tap water and there are no traces of NO2 or NO3 in the water I'm using.
I cycled my tank without fishes, I put in Instant Cycle and left my tank just run for almost a week before I added my first set of fishes. It was a rush or flush situation so I'm not sure if it cycled properly. There was a threat of flushing the poor puffies because they were disturbing the original community there.
-
Mareva
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:14 pm
- My Puffers: 3 DPs: Borneo, Palua and Fidji!
- Location: Québec, Canada
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
Ok, Cycle is all dead bacteria and unfortunatly does nothing for cycling a tank. If your can get a hold of Bio-Spira (has to be kept in a refrigerator) that's the only known product to contain live bacteria to help cycle your tank. From what you said, your tank is probably not cycled and the puffers are very sensitive to amonia and nitrites so that's most likely what's upseting it.
So right now you need to try to find Bio-spira. You also need to do water changes. Try several water changes in 1 day. This is why: say your nitrites are 30. If you do a 50% WC, they'll go down to 15. So even though you just put half of the tank worth or fresh water, your levels are still high. Another WC will bring them at 7.5, then another at 3.5, etc... So you might want to do more than one water change a day to help speed up the process. I'd go for 2-3 a day. It's a lot, but I think the stress from the NO2 and NO3 levels in your tank is higher than the stress a WC will cause. Maybe someone else will suggest more or less WC a day, I must say I wouldn't be confortable with more than3 a day, but maybe another member could confirm if it'd be ok or no.
Good luck!
So right now you need to try to find Bio-spira. You also need to do water changes. Try several water changes in 1 day. This is why: say your nitrites are 30. If you do a 50% WC, they'll go down to 15. So even though you just put half of the tank worth or fresh water, your levels are still high. Another WC will bring them at 7.5, then another at 3.5, etc... So you might want to do more than one water change a day to help speed up the process. I'd go for 2-3 a day. It's a lot, but I think the stress from the NO2 and NO3 levels in your tank is higher than the stress a WC will cause. Maybe someone else will suggest more or less WC a day, I must say I wouldn't be confortable with more than3 a day, but maybe another member could confirm if it'd be ok or no.
Good luck!
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
So the update at the moment is.....
I have taken Cyclops (F8's name) into the local pet shop for hospitalization. They gave me a dirty look when they tested the water he came in. They're going to try to nurse it back to health, they are not sure if they can do it because Cyclops has stopped eating and they are worried that the water may have damaged the internal organs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
They also told me to clear out my current tank and start fresh. I just cleaned out my tank and I'm letting it dry for the day. Starting tomorrow, I will restart the cycling process.
So given that I will be setting up a tank (again), I do not think I will be adding any other fishes so I will again try to cycle it without any fishes. The store told me to do the following,
1) Add in the 10G of water
2) Turn on the Filter
3) Add in 4 caps of the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Stress Coat w/ Aloe Vera liquid to remove the chlorine
4) Add in 4 caps of the Nutrafin Cycle to kick start the cycling of the tank
5) Leave it for a week
6) Add 2 tbsp of marine salt to turn it slightly BW
7) Put back in Cyclops and pray
That's pretty much the verdict there. I'm paying close attention to the forums for other helpful hints, I'm hoping that Cyclops will live.
Thank you all.
I have taken Cyclops (F8's name) into the local pet shop for hospitalization. They gave me a dirty look when they tested the water he came in. They're going to try to nurse it back to health, they are not sure if they can do it because Cyclops has stopped eating and they are worried that the water may have damaged the internal organs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
They also told me to clear out my current tank and start fresh. I just cleaned out my tank and I'm letting it dry for the day. Starting tomorrow, I will restart the cycling process.
So given that I will be setting up a tank (again), I do not think I will be adding any other fishes so I will again try to cycle it without any fishes. The store told me to do the following,
1) Add in the 10G of water
2) Turn on the Filter
3) Add in 4 caps of the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Stress Coat w/ Aloe Vera liquid to remove the chlorine
4) Add in 4 caps of the Nutrafin Cycle to kick start the cycling of the tank
5) Leave it for a week
6) Add 2 tbsp of marine salt to turn it slightly BW
7) Put back in Cyclops and pray
That's pretty much the verdict there. I'm paying close attention to the forums for other helpful hints, I'm hoping that Cyclops will live.
Thank you all.
-
t1gerbee
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:10 am
- My Puffers: 1 x Ceylon + 1 x GSP + 1 x stars and stripes (juv) -Marine
(Non puffs-)
4 x clowns
1 x Oscar-Tropical
3 x Convicts-Tropical
1 x Map Turtle-tropical
2 x Plecs-Tropical
2 x goldfish - Location: london
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
ok, well done on taking him to a local pet shop... i hope they are nice to your buddy...!
I don't think their advice on cycling your tank is great...
at least with your tank as it was the cycle was working its way through, now you are bacl to square one again....
I would start with the correct level to salt to match that which the pet shop is keeping your puffer in... if that is brackish then make your tank the same... eg 1.003.... add your dechorinator as you do that...
Ok, so cycling a tank usually takes longer than a week, and needs a source of ammonia to kick start the cycle... you could use cycle... this is deas bacteria not live but will add some ammonia, you could also use fish food or a prawn or two.. or you can get some PURE ammonia, but check with people on here about exactly what to get...
the cycling will take longer than a week (usually) ... you need a test kit to accurately say if the cycle is complete...
you are looking for a 0 ammonia reading, 0 nitrite reading and a nitrate reading... this nitrate reading is the key to knowing your cycle is complete.. no nitrate reading then the cycle is not finished...
once you have a strong nitrate reading, you need to do a 50% water change to get the nitrates down to an acceptable level, preferably under 20...
do not put cyclops in again until that stage... not in a week, only once your readings are correct....
the reason for cycling the tank at the correct salinity is that an increase/decrease of more than 0.002 salinity will wipe out all your nitrifying bacteria, rendering you back at square 1 again...
so cycle it at the SG that you intend to keep your puff in... and the SG that matches the hospital tank...
I don't think their advice on cycling your tank is great...
at least with your tank as it was the cycle was working its way through, now you are bacl to square one again....
I would start with the correct level to salt to match that which the pet shop is keeping your puffer in... if that is brackish then make your tank the same... eg 1.003.... add your dechorinator as you do that...
Ok, so cycling a tank usually takes longer than a week, and needs a source of ammonia to kick start the cycle... you could use cycle... this is deas bacteria not live but will add some ammonia, you could also use fish food or a prawn or two.. or you can get some PURE ammonia, but check with people on here about exactly what to get...
the cycling will take longer than a week (usually) ... you need a test kit to accurately say if the cycle is complete...
you are looking for a 0 ammonia reading, 0 nitrite reading and a nitrate reading... this nitrate reading is the key to knowing your cycle is complete.. no nitrate reading then the cycle is not finished...
once you have a strong nitrate reading, you need to do a 50% water change to get the nitrates down to an acceptable level, preferably under 20...
do not put cyclops in again until that stage... not in a week, only once your readings are correct....
the reason for cycling the tank at the correct salinity is that an increase/decrease of more than 0.002 salinity will wipe out all your nitrifying bacteria, rendering you back at square 1 again...
so cycle it at the SG that you intend to keep your puff in... and the SG that matches the hospital tank...
1 x 90G Juv stars and stripes puffer, Ceylon Puffer + GSP + 2 black clowns
1 x 30G LPS Reef
1 x 30G 1 x Blind goldfish
1 x 30G LPS Reef
1 x 30G 1 x Blind goldfish
-
Mareva
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:14 pm
- My Puffers: 3 DPs: Borneo, Palua and Fidji!
- Location: Québec, Canada
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
There's a great article in the library about fishless cycling. It works great (done it!)!
You mentioned the fish comes from your GF tank? Try to get some filter media from her aquarium to put in the filter. That is where the bacteria stick so you'll have a great source of bacteria, that will shorten the cycling process as you'll already have the right bacteria.
You mentioned the fish comes from your GF tank? Try to get some filter media from her aquarium to put in the filter. That is where the bacteria stick so you'll have a great source of bacteria, that will shorten the cycling process as you'll already have the right bacteria.
Re: F8 Slowly Dying
Went to the pet store today and found that Cyclops has passed away some time between last night and this morning. 
So now I have all the time in the world to cycle my tank and get it right before I get another puffer. Contemplating on either getting another F8...or else a GSP......I'll have to figure that out when the time comes.
I got myself a test kit. So my tap water with the Stress Coat is
pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0.25
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
I'll be watching the levels through the week to make sure the cycling is going on.
Thanks for all your help.
So now I have all the time in the world to cycle my tank and get it right before I get another puffer. Contemplating on either getting another F8...or else a GSP......I'll have to figure that out when the time comes.
I got myself a test kit. So my tap water with the Stress Coat is
pH - 7.8
Ammonia - 0.25
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
I'll be watching the levels through the week to make sure the cycling is going on.
Thanks for all your help.