The Mysterious Death of Buddy

[genetao]

My current parameters:
PH – 7.4
Amm – 0.0
Nitrite – 0.0
Nitrate – 5.0 - 7.0
Sg – 0.000

Inhabitants – 1.25” f8 puffer (not including tail)
Tank size – 15 gallon

Things I’ve added:
Melafix
Prime
Seachem Flourish fertilizer (once a week)
Seachem Flourish Excel (using less than the recommended amount a few times a week)
Fed Buddy: Pond Snails OR prawn once a day
I've done two water changes both at 50% using fresh water
The aquarium has been setup for about 9 weeks, using ammonia from Ace Hardware for the fishless cycling technique
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Now onto the story:

I just lost Kirby not too long ago to a mysterious death: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12601

And so I was torn as to whether or not I should pursue another puffer. I thought about it for a while, and in the meantime I maintained the bacteria in the tank using ammonia. I ended up picking an f8 which was about 1.25 inches long (not including the tail). He didn't seem too terribly stressed when I acclimated him to his new home. At the lfs, he was in extremely light brackish water, something like 1 tsp salt per gallon. When I brought Buddy home, I did a 90% water change (because I was using the fishless cycle method and continuing to feed the bacteria with Ace Hardware ammonia until I purchased a puffer). Needless to say, acclimating the lil' guy to fresh water wasn't a problem in one evening. I wanted to start him out in freshwater because I'm in the process of purchasing more plants and need to acclimate the plants. And being that Buddy is is a juvenile, its my understanding that freshwater is okay for f8's of that age.

I fed him some prawn that same night (which was a Tuesday night), and continued to feed him either prawn or pond snails until Friday. He had some slight wounds on his skin and a nipped fin, so I put in some melafix, but made sure to put in LESS THAN THE RECOMMENDED AMOUNT because of concerns of burning. He was healing nicely, and was eating just great. His belly was white, his eyes were clear and bright, and seemed to be generally healthy.
On Saturday, I got home late, and thus didn't feed him.
On Sunday, I tried feeding him prawn, but he refused to eat. He also started to hide more.
On Monday, I tried feeding him prawn again, and he wasn't interested. I tried pond snail, and he nipped at it for a little bit, then was uninterested. I then crushed the snail and tried to dangle it in front of him. Again no bite. I took the snail and rubbed crushed garlic juice on the snail and tried again. Still not interested. He was more lethargic than before, and was dazed a lot. He even let me take lots of pictures of him up close, which he normally doesn't let me do. I also noticed that he was breathing fairly rapidly. My water tests still came up 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and ~7nitrate. Not wanting to take a chance, I did a 60% water change.
I didn't see his poo for a few days, but when I did last see him poo, it was brown and substantial.
Today, Tuesday, I found him dead at the bottom. Still looking fairly healthy. And I'm at a loss as to why.

I can't figure out why he died. His death seemed mysterious just like Kirby. I thought maybe its because of something in the tank that's poisoning him, but I highly doubt it. This is what I have in the tank:
two anubias plants
java fern
java moss
lace rock (from a lfs)
petrified wood (rock)
drift wood
fake mangrove root from petsmart (A suggestion from Puffer Punk; Thanks!)
regular gravel
Hagen AquaClear

And thats it. Nothing artificial (except for the mangrove). I don't use soap when cleaning nor any other cleaners. No hairspray or aerosols are used at home, no smoking, nothing at all. I don't really see signs of ips, although his tummy is flat, but not sunken in.

This is the second puffer I've lost , but this guy died in less than a week. I was devastated with the loss of Kirby, and was more prepared when I saw unpromising signs of Buddy. I've been doing lots and lots of research on this forum, both before I decided to purchase my first puffer, and all the way through up until now. I can't begin to tell you just how many countless hours I've spent wasting company time pouring over the forums on this website. Although I'm new to puffers, I've kept tropical fish for more than a decade, and I can honestly say that keeping puffers has been the most difficult I've ever kept. They are such neat fish, but I can't seem to get a puffer to stay with me.

If someone here can tell me what I did wrong, or what I should do different next time, please let me know. I really want to keep a puffer, but I don't want this to keep happening. At this point, I'm seriously considering saying goodbye to puffers, and thus saying goodbye to this forum. Please help me. I'd be willing to try one more time if someone could convince me of doing something different.

Scroll down to the next posts to see more pictures of Buddy.

[genetao]

More pictures.

[genetao]

He looks bigger in the picture, but that's because I'm using a high resolution setting. He's actually only 1.25 inches long, not including the tail.

Any ideas anyone?

[Pufferpunk]

Wow, I'm so sorry you're having problems. It seems you are doing more than everything right.

[cobra1713]

ok well this is prob a stupid question but you are dechlorinating the water right? you didnt mention but im sure you are.

second the only thing i notice that i have never heard of is petrefiec rock in an aquarium, now idk it might be perfectly fine but i havent done any research on it so ill read about it and get back to you cus everything else sound like you know what oyur doing and are doing it right.

wait i just looked at those pics again and ive never seen ich on a F8 befor but can someone confirm if that is or isnt ich? it doesnt look like ich on other fish but i know that puffers are scalesless so im not really sure.

also i wouldnt add the prime and mela fix unless they have know issues you are trying to fix cus its just other stuff in the water idk if you saw somthing you were trying to fix then thats fine but they shouldnt be used as just a addditive to water all the time.

[genetao]

Thanks PP.

I did get both f8s from the same lfs. Their's seem the healthiest of the 6 shops I've been to.

Could it be the supplier?

If you don't know what's going on here PP, (because I've read tons and tons of your posts answering lots of questions, both on this forum and on another forum), then I'm toast.

[genetao]

Cobra, wait a minute. Am I missing something here?

You ask if I use a dechlorinator. Yes I am. I am using Prime, as it states on the bottle "Removes Chlorine, Chloramine, Ammonia".

I also add Melafix because that's what a lot of people on this forum recommend for wounds and torn fins, and that's what buddy has, scrapes on the skin and torn fins.

library/hospital/melafix/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you do the same thing if your fish had some scrapes?

[Pufferpunk]

Both are totally safe to use as instructed on the bottle & I use both often, myself.

The LFS could possibly be getting in bad stock, with some unforseen parasite or even puffers caught with cyanide.

[cobra1713]

Yes i would i must have missed that he had scrapes sorry, i thaught you said you were just adding cus he was acting sick but yea if he has scrapes then deffinitly add the melafix, and ok just making sure about the dechlorinator cus i was sure you did but if that was something you missed then it could have been what killed him but guess not, wow this really is an interesting case. you seem to be doing everything right, maybe it is just a bad case of puffers from the LFS, i would wait and see if the store has any problems.


oh wait! i might have it here but maybe not, ok lets see have your LFS check there PH cus maybe the puffers are going through a little PH shock but then again PH shock should effect them quicker, but maybe its a start. also have them actually check their salinity with a hydrometer and check because if it was in higher crakish than you thaught it was and you didnt drip aclimate it for a few hourse that could also shock it.

my only guess here is a shock in water parameters because everything your doing is right so im thinking it has to be a change in water.

[cobra1713]

cyanide thats a good point! dang i shoulda thaught of that. just watch their stock and see if the rest of them die.

[genetao]

Regarding cyanide capture, I had this same discussion with my previous f8.

As Nick stated, the symptoms of cyanide are: "Unwilling to eat, spitting rather than swallowing(also a symptom of protozoan infection of the upper digestive track) vomiting any significant quantity of food swallowed, medium-slow painful death."

This wasn't the symptoms at all for the first f8, as he was still eating, and not vomiting, and lived for 19 days under my care. Then died suddenly. See: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12601

But the second time around, with Buddy, he did stop eating, but he never vomitted. So it sort of rules out the possibility of cyanide.

[Nick]

is it possible there is some contaminant slowly oozing from the lace rock?

[genetao]

I suppose so. I've heard of other aquarists use lace rock without a problem. That's why I use it.

I was thinking of putting in a feeder fish in there to see how it fares. If after a month it survives, then I'll know it was the puffers being sick.

If however it dies, then I can assume that something else in the aquarium is leaching out and killing the puffers.

[Nick]

I'd get a pond goldfish instead - the feeding might add pathogens to the tank.

[genetao]

So say the goldfish does survive after a month.

Then what do I do with the goldfish?