Weird GSP Behavior?

[Happy_Puffer]

I have had this GSP for about a week and today he has been acting werid (or normal?) He is swimming around with his tail tucked to the side like when he is sleeping. I don't know if hes upset or something. He was in a little cup I have in the tank all curled in a little ball which he has never done. He is still eating and he is swimming around a little. Is he just tired, I just fed him some bloodworms and I did a big water change today. About 85% since the water was cloudy from some Ip meds. I just got some prazipro today for when and if I get a salt water puff and I added some of that. I am really worried about him since he is always so active. NOw he is just sitting one the bottom (for the most part) I just hope he isn't sick.

[groovitudedude]

Those aren't good signs

[Happy_Puffer]

I know thats way I'm asking. He is kinda dark but he has been like that for a few days. He is really light when I turn the light on and then through out the day he changes from dark to light. I mean he is still eating like a horse and he is still swimming around, do you think he is just mad because of the water change? I took all the stuff out of the tank and then took out almost all the water, because of the ip meds I didn't want to clean the tank so it has been over a week but I still tested the water and I had nothing spiking so I decided to hold out so he could get the meds. Does anyone think its just stress? I know that this is a hope but has this happened to anyone else?

[Nick]

He might just be moody, and if he did have worms that were killed by the prazi, that can make them feel off for a while. I'd keep a close eye on him.

[Happy_Puffer]

I just added the prazipro today so I don't think it has worked, I had some stuff called general cure that I soaked his food in and then I added it to the take just to be safe and he seemed fine but I think he might still have some thats why I added the prazi. I had to have my lfs order it and they just got it in today yay!

[Nick]

I have found that if they are going to be effective at all, wormers start killing parasites in a matter of hours. General cure has prazi and metrodiazole in it, but I haven't always found metrodiazole as effective as certain other treatments, perhaps because of how long it's been in the hobby.

[Happy_Puffer]

Well at times he seems to be fine and then he looks really sick. When I am around the tank he is up and swimming around the bottom then when I leave the tank he goes back on the bottom and turns really dark. He has been rubbing on the clay plant pots that I have in there. I would think that it hurts him to rub on the pots that hard. I just did a water change so I hope its just stress and I checked my levels and they were all fine. All I have added was the prazi,prime, aqua safe and then a little stress coat for the platties.

[Nick]

You don't need both prime and aqua safe, if you want to save money. I also don't use stress coat, the aloe isn't useful unless harsh netting has really damaged the slime coat of a fish and it renders carbon less effective and ruins resin products, like purigen, biochemsorb, and many others. If your puffer is flicking on things he may have some kind of external parasite problem, I'm pretty sure jungle tank buddies fizz tab anti parasite can help with that, and flubendiazole products may as well. I'd lay off the stress coat when treating for external parasites, coating the fish with aloe is bound to make it harder for the medication to reach the fish's body.

[Happy_Puffer]

Oh I didn't know that stress coat was bad for puffers. I have the aqua safe left over from when the tank was fw. He is still eating very well but he isn't swimming around I am going to be moving him to my boyfriends qt tank and raise the sg so he can move over to the salt water but I know this will be awhile but at least he will be in a tank by himself. I think one of the platties might be picking on him and stressing him out. So I will be moving him on Monday so he is less stressed.

[FishFan]

We both agree with Nick!

Short version: Use the purest cleanest water possible with as few added chemicals as possible. If chemical additives are needed (such as for pH adjustment), keep it natural and keep it simple. Long version below.

We also stopped using Prime to bind ammonia in favor of Ammolock because we believe Prime to be a Sodium Formaldehyde Sulfoxylate ion-based product. Chemicals of this type are unstable and can form toxic compounds reacting with other chemicals in the tank. The instability of Prime is exemplified by the odor changes it undergoes after the bottle is opened. At first it has little odor. Later it smells faintly of sulfur. As it ages further the odor becomes more revolting and is similar to rotting eggs. If possible, don't use any ammonia binding products. If you don't have chloramine in your water, dechlorinate your tap water with a product that contains only sodium theosulphate, if possible.

Stress coat and other slime enhancers are, in our opinions, just a way to sell skin irritation as an advantage. Even if the slime production is not cause by irritation, increased slime interferes with gill function which is stressful to fish.

In our view the fewer chemicals you use in your water the healthier it is for the fish. If the chemical is needed it is best to select additives that are as similar to what is found in nature as possible. We don't like to use phosphate pH buffers for example. We also prefer dips for treatment rather than leave-in baths.

For example, according to Puffer Queen, praziquantel need only remain in the water at 7.6mg/gallon for 1-3 hours to be effective. Both Prazipro (10.4 mg/gallon) and General Cure (7.5mg/gal) can be used as a 1-3 hour dip, rather than a leave-in tank water treatment. The effectiveness of a three hour dip in metronidizole in General Cure is unknown.

If a fish is rubbing on things it can cause sores. Just keep in mind that fish will rub on objects in response to pests and disease, but also in response to common irritants including pH changes, water chemistry changes, ammonia, chlorine, and when chemical added to the tank break down or react with each other to produce toxic compounds. It would not surprise me if fish with already irritated skin or gills reacted to Stress Coat by rubbing on tank objects, at least initially.

[Nick]

I did some research recently, and apparently Amquel contains no binders that break down over time or remove the wastes from the nitrogen cycle, and is the only common binder ruled safe for human and pet consumption. I'm tempted to use it for this reason, as I'm almost out of prime. It's more expensive per gallon, but pet and human exposure safe is a big plus for me, as I get the water all over me regularly, and I admit I taste it to see if something is "off" if my fish seem off but tests say things are fine, or as a double check for same SG. I also use only crushed coral as a PH buffer, I don't' generally have PH problems(I change a good amount of water even on my SW tank), but a bag of the stuff in the filter works wonders if things are low, I get really good feedback from everyone at my job I recommend this to. The carbonates are good buffers and provide a healthy trace mineral in salt water and other high PH tanks. BTW, has puffer queen ever said anything about use of levimisole hydrochloride as a leave in or bath? I got some recently and am wondering if she's had any experience with it.

[FishFan]

Nick, thanks for the information on Amquel, and for a great example illustrating the use of natural buffers rather than water additives. Would you use crushed coral in a brackish tank?

R&A

[Nick]

I did use crushed coral in my exes tank(as a substrate,mostly, but it worked, I'd vacuum the crap out of it so it would keep buffering instead of getting slimy and ineffective). The PH in that tank seemed to go to just over 8 anytime the SG I get using instant ocean was above 1.005, which means that high volume water changes would be safe while using crushed coral to increase and buffer PH and it would also be there to prevent a swing.

[Happy_Puffer]

I am keeping the light off for now since he is stressed. He seems to do better with the light off. I wish I would have known that prime isn't the best thing to use since I just bought a big bottle for my salt water. I will look into the Amquel, next time I am at the lfs. He needs to be moved since I think the platties are getting mean about the hidey holes. I think they are breeding or something because I have about 5 really small ones in there and they all stay in a group and they have taken over the cave thats why I added the pots and my puff really like the pots more anyway. I just hope hes ok, I feel bad for adding all that stuff to the tank do you think I should do another water change to get rid of that? He is still eating really well he just seems less active when the light is on. I don't mess with the ph since is it around 8 right now, I have never added anything for ph, I don't know if the salt keeps it really high because I don't have sand in this tank. Can I use the amquel on my salt water tank? I am trying to find stuff that works for both so I don't have to spend alot on both tanks. I would much rather buy live rock for the salt water. . I hope he makes it he was pretty sick when I bought him, he was barely eating and had many scars but I felt so bad because when he arrived at the store he was in with some big gsps that I guess were picking on him. So I added some mela when I got him but I didn't want to treat for ips and add the mela. I thought that would be too much at once. Do you think I should readd the mela for the scars. He has a big one by his tail thats why I named him scar( I know creative).

[sunburst]

on all the other forums i read on seachem prime is the most recomened solution to use
i certainly use it with no ill affects as far