My poor GSPs need help!!!

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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billysgirl4e
Figure 8 Puffer
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:34 pm
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QT: Yellow Tang.
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My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by billysgirl4e »

Hi all!
I am relatively new to fish keeping (just about a year or so), but have done avid research. I have 2 GSPs, and need help. First I will give history, and symptoms, then peramaters of tank. My two GSPs were perchased from walmart about two months ago. Their names are "sonic" and 'shadow". Obviously, from the get-go, one (Sonic) was more dominant. But Shadow has always seemed content. They have loved their space and have always had bright, white bellies with very prominent florescent green patches on their heads, and have been pleasingly active. I've always fed them a varied died of frozen bloodworms, brineshrimp, and snails. They've never had a single problem or seeming complain. They've always greeted me at the glass, shared food, rarely bickered, etc.. My husband knows how to take care of them, and did everything he was supposed to while I was away for a week. But now, they are very lethargic, often puffed, sometimes yellowish and faded in color, and have not eaten for several days. I am so worried. I have tested the water, and everythng seems fine, as far as my knowledge can see. Here are my current paramaters, routines, etc.:


Nitrates: 20ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
GH: 150ppm
KH: 180ppm
PH: ~8.0
Salinity/Gravity: 14, 1.014
29 Gallon tank. 2 GSPs, (assuming) juvenille)...roughly 2 inches/ fish. Coral substrate, densely planted (silk plants) w/ adequate hiding places.
Routine: Rotation daily of brine shrimp, bloodworms (both frozen). Fed once daily. Once a week or so fed live snails. 25% weekly water change. Aquarium salt added w/ water changes. Vacuumed every other day, or when uneaten food. Occasional melafix added at signs of damage or illness.

In the past week, I have done a 25% water change, and added a dose of melafix for two days.

Tank originally cycled with stresszyme. Current tank has been set up for approx. 2 months.

Hope that helps. As a final side note, while still not eating, sonic is back to normal mostly. Active and inquisitive (but still not eating!). Shadow has moved a little bit and swam around. As he does, his color returns almost to normal, with the exception of stresslines across his body. Sonic's color when he moves around is perfect. When I purchased them, they were in freshwater, and have slowly transfered them to brackish water. Little at a time. These fish are my best buds (that sounds so rediculous!)....can anyone help? I have done as much research as I have been able to find on the internet, and try to adhere to that....but if I'm doing something wrong, or not doing something I should... please let me know. PS - I know the tank is small. I plan on getting a bigger one relatively soon. I'm in a trailer right now, so it's hard. Could they be stressing each other out? Or sick? Or depressed? Or am I just paranoid (I doubt).

thank you! and my puffers thank you too!
Billysgirl4e :D
billysgirl4e
Figure 8 Puffer
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:34 pm
My Puffers: 75g FOWLR My GSP, "Ryuu"
55g Nothing yet.
10g Fresh. 1 Betta, Elvis. 1 Platy, Mickey.
5g BBGs
QT: Yellow Tang.
Location: FLoRidA!!!

Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by billysgirl4e »

PS, My normal tank temp reaches from 80 to 82...currently 81.5...sorry
Nick
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Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by Nick »

The trouble, I would guess, is the aquarium salt. A tank at that high an SG has a LOT of salt, and none of the trace elements the puffers need. So they are probably suffering the same kind of stress they do when kept in pure FW longer than a couple months. I'd do a 25% change right away, this time with marine salt mix, like instant ocean, and in a day or two, a 50% change, again with marine salt mix instead of aquarium salt. Hopefully the first change will be enough to perk them up. Your filter bacteria should be fine as long as the water you change in is the same SG as the water you take out, even though it will be richer in minerals. Good luck!
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StormySkiez
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Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by StormySkiez »

Not that I'm saying aquarium salt is not causing problems but I have used it for 5 months with no problems with my gsp's. Your gsp's are about 1/2 inch larger then mine. At two inches they do need to start being aclimated to brackish water w/ marine salt like Nick said. A fish's size will be stunted if not kept in the right size tank to grow in causing health problems eventually and a much shorter life span. .002 is all you should raise the salt lvl per week.

What was your ammonia reading?

If adding marine salt does not perk them up right away I would look at treating them for IP as most all puffers carry them and stress will cause the IP to make the puffer ill. Not eating is one of the first signs of IP's. Check out the library here. There is an article in there about treating for IP.
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Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by Pufferpunk »

I would also read the article in our Library on GSPs.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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billysgirl4e
Figure 8 Puffer
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:34 pm
My Puffers: 75g FOWLR My GSP, "Ryuu"
55g Nothing yet.
10g Fresh. 1 Betta, Elvis. 1 Platy, Mickey.
5g BBGs
QT: Yellow Tang.
Location: FLoRidA!!!

Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by billysgirl4e »

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions... they helped a lot. I am almost positive now that the cause was internal parasites, but I figured that out far too late. They hadn't eaten for over a week, and this evening both passed. One several hours before the other. I made a video of Sonic several hours before he passed, so...I'm going to try to post it shortly.
Jessica
billysgirl4e
Figure 8 Puffer
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:34 pm
My Puffers: 75g FOWLR My GSP, "Ryuu"
55g Nothing yet.
10g Fresh. 1 Betta, Elvis. 1 Platy, Mickey.
5g BBGs
QT: Yellow Tang.
Location: FLoRidA!!!

Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by billysgirl4e »

Now that I have the parasite medicine and marine salt...hydrometer, etc. I can't stand to see my tank empty - it makes me sadder. Since I'm not 100% positive cause of death, what do I need to do to set up the tank for a new puffer? Should I do a 100% water change, change filter, etc.? If so, do I need to re-cycle it? Will I lose all of my positive bacteria? Does it matter? Other questions about proposed setup - Do puffers do okay by themselves? I was just gonna get one this time. Should there be anything else in the tank with them (not jut fish...anything)? these are questions I think I know the answers to, but I just want to pick people's brains that have more knowledge. Also, w/ my 29 gallon setup, are there any other types of puffers that you might suggest? Just thoughts... thanks.

Thanks so much guys...y'all have made this so much easier.
Jessica
Nick
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Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:47 pm
My Puffers: Mine:
GSPs - Shakespeare and Jillybean
F8 - Velvet
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DP - Emma Goldman
Narrow Lined Puffer - Ulrike
Location (country): Northeastern USA
Location: Middletown, CT
Contact:

Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by Nick »

Puffers do very well by themselves, as they are territorial fish by and large(exception being SAP's) Lots of decorations, especially tall stuff that keeps them from being able to see the whole tank at once, helps most. If you leave the tank empty for long, it will lose it's cycle, which does matter. Changing the SG by more than .002 from where it was will also make this happen. A single GSP is good in a 29, or a pair of figure 8's, in the brackish department. In my experience MOST GSP you get will have IPs, and I'd treat any I got for IPs, so treating your tank for them either way is probably a good idea.
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
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StormySkiez
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Re: My poor GSPs need help!!!

Post by StormySkiez »

Sorry about your loss :(.

Here is a link to the puffer pedia: ug.php/v/PufferPedia/ and here is a link to help with keeping your cycle while you have no fish in the tank: library/category/water-filtration/

There are sooo many cute puffers to choose from. If I had to choose again I think I would have went w/ fresh water puffers just because they are much easier to care for and cheaper since you do not need to set them up in brackish to marine tanks.

I agree w/ Nick about treating for IP's since puffers are prone to them and prevent this from occuring again.
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55g-2 green spotted puffers 1 year old Nov 08!
20g-5 leopard danio,4 whiteskirt tetras, amanos, nerita snails, 2 neon tetras
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