New GSP's...

[curtis97322]

OOps...

I knew better but got 2 GSP's, non cycled (40 breeder) tank. Hadn't done my research yet either... I've got a decent amount of experience with freshwater (Oscars and goldfish) but no experience with brackish or saltwater. Some specs and questions. I have a bunch of reading to do but figured I'd post since it's late and its bedtime (and tomorrow is a day full of classes and homework...)

1. Should I steal media from either FW tank's filters(All 3 tanks have XP3's)? Neither has a very high level of salt and from what I've read species are different... don't wanna make things worse by stealing media (don't wanna cause a dieoff and spike...).

2. Puffers are 1.5 to 2 inches. SG is 1.006 (what LFS had em at), sound right?

3. 80 degrees sound right?

4. Shell on (raw) shrimp OK? I'll have a steady supply of snails soon... (bunch of snails in the goldfish tank... there's gotta be at least one pair...).

5. Preferred substrate for these guys? I'm thinking coral sand or the like?

6. I've got lights hacked together right now, going to have to put something together anyways... so I better ask what these guys prefer lighting wise (light/ dim/ etc... probably going to be spiral fluorescents unless theres a reason I should use something else...)

I'm sure I'll have more questions. Thanks in advance for the answers to these (and excuse my stupid questions... it's late and I'm tiiiiiiiiired.)

[curtis97322]

Some pictures of the new guys... someone wanna verify for me that these ARE gsp's? (they were labled "leopard puffers" at the LFS).

puffers1.jpg

puffers2.jpg

[Jay.B.]

Firstly, Hello and welcome.
Unfortunately, you can't use media from your freshwater filters as the salt in your brackish will kill the bacteria, so unless you know somebody with similar brackish water then you're going to have to cycle it with the fish in, so at least a 50% water change daily to keep those levels down as it cycles. If you can get hold of a "LIVE" bacteria culture, such as JBL filter start, Bactinettes etc. (not products like "cycle" that are dead cultures) then that may help speed up the process, either way, very careful monitoring and DAILY WATER CHANGES are a necessity, keep up with that and all should be fine, I'm still not overly experienced in these matters, so other people may put me right on this.
If you encounter other problems during this period, there's no shortage of people on hand with plenty of advice.
As for the substrate, I use coral sand, it's natural looking and grain size is coarse enough to stop those deadly bacteria pockets I've read about on here that some people who use sand have encountered now and again, and coral sand will also help buffer up your pH.
Lighting not really an issue, nothing specialised required, although I have found that mine prefers it slightly dimmer, so I may have to remove one of the tubes in my new tank.

[Jase]

to use your media, drop the sg to 1.002 then after a cycle, bring it back up by no more than 1.002 per week.

[Nick]

If I were you, I'd just bring the SG in the puffer tank down to about 1.002 with a few water changes over a few hours, then place a cycled FW filter on there, and slowly increase the SG by .002 per week with your water changes. Cycled is more important than the higher SG at the moment.

[Jase]

If I were you, I'd just bring the SG in the puffer tank down to about 1.002 with a few water changes over a few hours, then place a cycled FW filter on there, and slowly increase the SG by .002 per week with your water changes. Cycled is more important than the higher SG at the moment.

that's a good idea!

[Jay.B.]

Why did I not think of that

[curtis97322]

Not a bad idea...

So drop the SG to 1.002, toss some FW media in, and then raise SG by .002 a week once the cycle is complete.

Right? Probably not a bad idea. While we're on the subject, obviously Ammonia and Nitrite should be 0, what levels are "puffer safe" with Nitrate-?

And how in the $%#@ do ya'll do your water changes? Bucket? I'm used to freshwater - toss in prime, get the faucet to the right temp and run a hose to the tank. Obviously can't do that with these guys...


And on bringing the water to a particular SG, is there an online calculator or a rule of thumb (Ideally using cups, teaspoons or the like per gallon) for adjusting the salinity?

Like, to bring 40 gallons to 1.002 from 1.006 how many gallons of brackish do I remove and how much fresh do I add (slowly of course). And once the tank is cycled, how much salt do I add. Obviously each salt and hydrometer is going to be a bit different but baselines are nice....

I REALLY don't like that save button where submit should be.... (too new to whine but oh well )

Off to hurt my brain at school...

[cobra1713]

Yup you gotta do it with the good old 5 gallon bucket =) lol

but as far as a "rule of thumb" goes idk if there really is one besides the standard brakish water is like 2 tablespoons marine salt per gallon water. and i think that should get you to like 1.006 or maybe 1.008. when your raising it i would say just do a 75-80% water change with the water at the salinity you want it at, then toss in maybe one more tablespoon. for my current 10 gallon when im raising .002. ill take out 8 gallons. replace all 8 with .004 and but mix in just a tiny bit extra to balance out the 2 gallon of .002 that was still in the tank.

to put it another way. to make full marine water most directions are 1/2 cup of salt per gallon of water so just adjust that according to the salinity you setting your puffer to. and at that range prob gonna aim for ending up around 1.008 maybe 1.010

[Jay.B.]

as far as salt content is concerned, I've been rather anal about things, I weigh my salt out to the gram and then check it with my Girlfriends refractometer.

I have found that 10 grams of salt per liter gives me an SG of 1.008 which roughly translates to every 1.25 grams of salt in every liter equates to 0.001 on the density

I knew it would pay off eventually to be so dam geeky about something

and make sure it's marine salt, as other salts, tonic salts, aquarium salts etc. do not contain the necessary minerals

[curtis97322]

Ok... so I woke up too late to get to school anywhere near on time (and I had to gawk at the fishes... don't think I can shower and do a 20 minute commute in 10 minutes...).

Anyways, I measured the salinity in the oscar tank (they almost always get SOME aquarium salt with water changes) and it appears to be around 1.004 The oscar tank is at 82, puffers at 78.6 (measured with thermometers that read the same when side by side in water) Just to check, puffer tank still reads 1.006. Obviously neither of these readings is uberprecise, but pretty close.

Soo... should I leave the puffer tank at 1.006 and let the backteria adjust, or drop sg to 1.004 (I ask because the readings are within .002)?

[curtis97322]

as far as salt content is concerned, I've been rather anal about things, I weigh my salt out to the gram and then check it with my Girlfriends refractometer.

I have found that 10 grams of salt per liter gives me an SG of 1.008 which roughly translates to every 1.25 grams of salt in every liter equates to 0.001 on the density

I knew it would pay off eventually to be so dam geeky about something

and make sure it's marine salt, as other salts, tonic salts, aquarium salts etc. do not contain the necessary minerals

Ya wanna turn that into a formula with cups or tbs?

And yeah, it's marine salt. I went all out and bought the 5 gal bucket of seachem reef salt (love that bucket.... future dog food container...)

[Pufferpunk]

I have found that it takes roughly around a cup of salt/5g to raise the SG by .005. It does differ with salts, as they can cake & become denser with time, exposure to moisture, etc.

What kind of salt are you using for the oscar (really dorsn't need any, IMO)? You need to be using marine salt for your puffers. Do you have all the necessary test kits? You'll be using them a lot!

[Jay.B.]

Ya wanna turn that into a formula with cups or tbs?

Okay then, no formula, but if you're working in gallons then it's 4.73g per gallon for every 0.001 you want to raise, weighing the salt, from my experience, seems to be the most constantly accurate way of achieving the correct SG in your water change water when you have no other method of measuring. a set of little digital scales should set you back no more than about $15 and would be a hell of a lot more accurate than a hydrometer without the price tag of a refractometer

[curtis97322]

The oscars get some aquarium salt, I'm wondering if I went overboard on the salt at one point and that's why the SG is where it is - I'd imagine the pellets have some salt content in em too... I have a big bucket of marine salt for the puffers. Obviously both salts are mostly NACl with the difference being trace minerals.

Question was - Oscar tank sg is 1.004, puffers currently acclimated to 1.006. I need to cycle the puffer tank. Should I lower the SG of the puffer tank to 1.004 and steal some media from the O tank, or leave it at 1.006 and steal media from the O tank?

And should I wait on substrate until the cycle is complete (will make water changes easier but there'll be less surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow on and PH will be more likely to swing?) Or toss in (aragonite/ crushed coral) substrate now - cloudiness from WC's be darned?