Since snails and shrimp don't get ich but are carriers of it, when you leave a tank fallow for 6 weeks to get rid of the ich can you still keep them in there or will the ich live if they are in the tank?
I think I know the answer but I just wanna make sure.
A question about ich
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
crazedpuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1755
- Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:57 pm
- My Puffers: 1x Porcupine Puffer
1xValentini - Location: Long Island, NY
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32976
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: A question about ich
Leave them in.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
crazedpuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1755
- Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:57 pm
- My Puffers: 1x Porcupine Puffer
1xValentini - Location: Long Island, NY
Re: A question about ich
Thought so thanks PP!
-
chevrolet67impala
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:55 am
- My Puffers: 1 Green Spotted Puffer
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: A question about ich
My puffer(green spotted, freshwater) was perfectly healthy and happy until I fed him this one ghost shrimp. The ghost shrimp appeared and acted fine but my puffer didn't eat all of him (which is really rare for him). He just left the upper third of it's body. I'm wondering if maybe that shrimp was contaminated with something because my puffer is chilling lower than usual (very close to his rocks) and hasn't been as good at catching his shrimp, and he has white bubbles on his back...They're not spots on his skin, they bubble on him and are a pale white. This just occurred a couple of days ago... right around the time I fed him that shrimp. His tank is 25 g. kept between 72 and 78 degrees. He has no tank mates, when I change his water I use purified water, stress coat, and aquasafe, to balance the Ph, eliminate chloramines, nitrates, and metals He switched tanks (to a bigger one) a month ago, both were a fishless cycle. I change his water every 3-5 days.
-
Myaj
- Tech Team
- Posts: 4587
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:27 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Bubba, turgidus
Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: A question about ich
Hi Chevy,
There is a chance that maybe you introduced some disease or parasite with the shrimp, especially if you dumped the water from the bag into your tank. Although its extra work, the best way to feed any live food is to quarentine it for a few weeks or you risk just this sort of thing happening.
However, there's a lot more things that could be causing your puffer problems. For one, Green Spotted Puffers are not freshwater. They are brackish puffers that eventually do best going full marine (over a few years time). So the lack of salt is probably not helping his immune system, which will make him susceptable to diseases, parasites and other health problems.
The white bubbles might be ich, an external parasite, but that is usually better described as "grains of salt". If it looks more like pimples, that's usually some sort of a skin irritation or infection. Can you get a good picture?
I would suggest for starters, that you think about adding some marine salt to his tank. Not aquarium salt (doesn't have the right makeup), but marine salt such as Instant Ocean. You won't want to raise it too fast, as any raise over .002 over a week's time can crash your biofilter, but adding the salt will help both with his health in general AND if its an external parasite.
Are you using RO water? That can be dangerous if you aren't balancing it out with RO Right or mixing it with tap water. I can't tell you the technical stuff about it, but it has to do with certain elements not being there that need to be...
Most people here do not like using Stress Coat or products to adjust the pH.. a stable pH is much better than one adjusted with chemicals to a certain "accepted level". Usually we suggest just using a plain dechlorinator (if you use city water), and not much else, as puffers are very sensitive to chemicals in general.
The water changes are great for him, but you might want to re-consider some of the things I mentioned above and see if that helps. Also, getting a photo of the white bubbles will help us give you an ID on what exactly is wrong.
There is a chance that maybe you introduced some disease or parasite with the shrimp, especially if you dumped the water from the bag into your tank. Although its extra work, the best way to feed any live food is to quarentine it for a few weeks or you risk just this sort of thing happening.
However, there's a lot more things that could be causing your puffer problems. For one, Green Spotted Puffers are not freshwater. They are brackish puffers that eventually do best going full marine (over a few years time). So the lack of salt is probably not helping his immune system, which will make him susceptable to diseases, parasites and other health problems.
The white bubbles might be ich, an external parasite, but that is usually better described as "grains of salt". If it looks more like pimples, that's usually some sort of a skin irritation or infection. Can you get a good picture?
I would suggest for starters, that you think about adding some marine salt to his tank. Not aquarium salt (doesn't have the right makeup), but marine salt such as Instant Ocean. You won't want to raise it too fast, as any raise over .002 over a week's time can crash your biofilter, but adding the salt will help both with his health in general AND if its an external parasite.
Are you using RO water? That can be dangerous if you aren't balancing it out with RO Right or mixing it with tap water. I can't tell you the technical stuff about it, but it has to do with certain elements not being there that need to be...
Most people here do not like using Stress Coat or products to adjust the pH.. a stable pH is much better than one adjusted with chemicals to a certain "accepted level". Usually we suggest just using a plain dechlorinator (if you use city water), and not much else, as puffers are very sensitive to chemicals in general.
The water changes are great for him, but you might want to re-consider some of the things I mentioned above and see if that helps. Also, getting a photo of the white bubbles will help us give you an ID on what exactly is wrong.
-
chevrolet67impala
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:55 am
- My Puffers: 1 Green Spotted Puffer
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: A question about ich
I read that if your puffer is under two inches long that it's not necessary to put him in brackish conditions, but from what you and others on this site have posted it helps his overall health and happiness, so I will definitely get some marine salt. Our scanner is broken so I can't get a picture, but when I got up this morning he looked much better, and theirs no signs of other stages of Ich. If I treat him for it will it hurt his health if he doesn't have it? I had no clue that puffers were so touchy about chemicals so I will definitely get a dechlorinater and Ph tester...Thank you very much, I think that with the changes you suggested my puffer should thrive. (this is kind of dumb, but what is RO water?)
-
moldmaker10
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:31 am
Re: A question about ich
RO stands for reverse osmosis it is basicly a water purifier that filters water like a kideny
-
chevrolet67impala
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:55 am
- My Puffers: 1 Green Spotted Puffer
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: A question about ich
Yes, the water is purified by Reverse Osmosis...
-
chevrolet67impala
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:55 am
- My Puffers: 1 Green Spotted Puffer
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: A question about ich
Does anyone have suggestions on an all-natural way to balance the Ph levels....What's the ideal puffer Ph?
-
moldmaker10
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:31 am
Re: A question about ich
i will explain a little more. the water first passes through a one micron sediment filter which looks like wound thread then passes through a matrix carbon filter which is a block of carbon then passes through the ro which is a plastic membrane which allows water and particles of a certain size to pass through it, the particles that do not pass through it are discharged through a waste hose which is a lot of waste, which is about 5:1 (waste:produce water out). my ro/di waste is about 10 :1. ten gollands of waste for every one gallon of product water out, waste water depends on water pressure and temperature.
-
crazedpuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 1755
- Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:57 pm
- My Puffers: 1x Porcupine Puffer
1xValentini - Location: Long Island, NY
Re: A question about ich
PH doesn't affect fish that much, its just a sudden change in PH that can harm a fish. I wouldn't hamper with the PH personally.
-
chevrolet67impala
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:55 am
- My Puffers: 1 Green Spotted Puffer
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: A question about ich
Well that's a huge relief...I felt terrible thinking that my poor fish's illness was purely my fault for not providing a well balanced Ph.
-
Myaj
- Tech Team
- Posts: 4587
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:27 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Bubba, turgidus
Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: A question about ich
Well, actually, if you are using 100% RO water without reconstituting it, then yes, you will have pH and other problems.
RO water is so stripped down that it can't be very stable.. so you have to do something to allow it to stablilize. There's basically 3 ways to do that. One is to mix it 50/50 with tap water, so the minerals and elements of the tap water can help balance everything but the RO water dilutes the tap water, raising the quality. The second is to use a product called RO Right (or there's probably a few other brand names), which adds back the things your water needs to be safe. The third is to use it with brackish or marine tanks, because the marine salt contains the trace elements that will balance it out for you.
So, first question.. WHY are you using RO water? That's got to be expensive buying it all the time, unless you have an in-home unit.. Granted, I'll agree that my puffers LOVE it when I do water changes with RO water, but my tap water here is pretty crappy (farming community with a lot of nitrates, etc). Is there something wrong with your tap water that you can't use it?
As far as stabilizing the pH, once you start using the marine salt, that will stabilize. Again, its just one of those things that is sort of "built in" to the salt mix. Most fish will adjust and do just fine in whatever pH comes out of your tap, no adjustment necessary unless you are trying to breed or keep a speciality breed, but since you are using RO, that throws that out the window.
So pick up some marine salt AND a hydrometer (I wouldn't worry about the pH, personally, its one of those things I never really understand why people worry about testing for unless there's a problem). Make sure the hydrometer reads all the way down to freshwater 1.000, some of them start higher up so if you don't get one that goes all the way down you won't be able to measure the low salinity levels you'll be starting at.
RO water is so stripped down that it can't be very stable.. so you have to do something to allow it to stablilize. There's basically 3 ways to do that. One is to mix it 50/50 with tap water, so the minerals and elements of the tap water can help balance everything but the RO water dilutes the tap water, raising the quality. The second is to use a product called RO Right (or there's probably a few other brand names), which adds back the things your water needs to be safe. The third is to use it with brackish or marine tanks, because the marine salt contains the trace elements that will balance it out for you.
So, first question.. WHY are you using RO water? That's got to be expensive buying it all the time, unless you have an in-home unit.. Granted, I'll agree that my puffers LOVE it when I do water changes with RO water, but my tap water here is pretty crappy (farming community with a lot of nitrates, etc). Is there something wrong with your tap water that you can't use it?
As far as stabilizing the pH, once you start using the marine salt, that will stabilize. Again, its just one of those things that is sort of "built in" to the salt mix. Most fish will adjust and do just fine in whatever pH comes out of your tap, no adjustment necessary unless you are trying to breed or keep a speciality breed, but since you are using RO, that throws that out the window.
So pick up some marine salt AND a hydrometer (I wouldn't worry about the pH, personally, its one of those things I never really understand why people worry about testing for unless there's a problem). Make sure the hydrometer reads all the way down to freshwater 1.000, some of them start higher up so if you don't get one that goes all the way down you won't be able to measure the low salinity levels you'll be starting at.
-
chevrolet67impala
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:55 am
- My Puffers: 1 Green Spotted Puffer
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: A question about ich
I started using RO water because our tap is city water. It has a lot of chlorine and you can even see anonymous pieces floating in it. Would distilled water be better than RO? Would I be able to find a hydrometer at any place with fish supplies? Your response has been a lot of help, Thank You...
-
Myaj
- Tech Team
- Posts: 4587
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:27 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Bubba, turgidus
Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: A question about ich
Yes, you should be able to find a hydrometer at most fish stores. However, if your store didn't have any marine salt in stock, I wonder at how well they stock other things. BTW, a hydrometer is very cheap, only a few bucks, not a huge investment.
Distilled water, I *think* is a little more safe than RO, its not as "pure". I'm not positive its okay to use without some additives, so you might want to research that a bit (or someone here might know). Your city water might be just fine, that's what they make dechorinators for (look for Prime, Amquel or even Wardley's DeChlor), and the "chunks" are probably just minerals. If you have test kits for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, test your tap water and see what the levels are at. If there's no ammonia or nitrites, and very little to no nitrates, you should be able to use it just fine.
If you do switch to your tap water, just be sure to make the change slowly. Add only a little at a time over a week or so to get your puffer used to the new type of water, as it will feel very different to him. And make sure you dechlorinate!
Distilled water, I *think* is a little more safe than RO, its not as "pure". I'm not positive its okay to use without some additives, so you might want to research that a bit (or someone here might know). Your city water might be just fine, that's what they make dechorinators for (look for Prime, Amquel or even Wardley's DeChlor), and the "chunks" are probably just minerals. If you have test kits for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, test your tap water and see what the levels are at. If there's no ammonia or nitrites, and very little to no nitrates, you should be able to use it just fine.
If you do switch to your tap water, just be sure to make the change slowly. Add only a little at a time over a week or so to get your puffer used to the new type of water, as it will feel very different to him. And make sure you dechlorinate!