porcupine puffer keeps getting ich!!

[luvmypuffer]

Okay, this one is a toughie-please bear with me. Okay, I bought a small porcupine puffer about a month ago. The only thing fishwise in the tank at the time was a very aggressive (I soon found out) yellow tang. The puffer came down with ich so I treated him in my 2.5 gal. sick tank with a product reccomended by my lfs called Lifeguard. It worked well and he healed up fine. I also got rid of the mean tang. Since then, my puffer has had ich 3 more times now and I'm wondering if he'll ever get well. My tank is 55 gal., water temp is 80, salt level is 1.022, ammonia is at 0 and has never been otherwise. I house a maroon clown who lives happily in a bta, a coral beauty angel, a black and white striped damsel, a new less aggressive yellow tang, a sand sifting star, a condi anemone, and of course, the porcupine puffer. All lfs have told me this combo is fine since they are all aggressive. I had to treat the new tang replcement for ich also when I first introduced him, but he is well and goes back in the main tank tomorrow. All of the other fish are perfectly fine and seem not to bother each other. (I've been watching ) The puffer gets frozen krill along with feeder guppies about every 2 or 3 days. His eating habits haven't depleated at all and he swims happily around the tank. All my parameters are correct and no one is bullying him, he has plenty of places to hide-I don't get it! The ich sarts on his fins as small cloudy spots and then moves on to his body, appearing more like small specks of table salt. The meds have worked each time, the last time taking a little longer. I acclimate him each time he is moved to and from the sick tank and catch him in a cup with holes so he doesn't puff up on me. I can't put him in the sick tank until tomorrow when the tang is removed so I have given him freshwater dips for the last 2 days, only to help for a little while. Even if I treat him for the 4th time, it doesn't seem he's ever gonna STAY better. Please help, don't know what else to do.
Thanks so much,
Jennifer (aka-puffer nurse )

[luvmypuffer]

Oh, by the way (I'm new, I forgot)-my tank has been set up for around 6 months. I cycled it with live sand, crushed coral and a few live rock. I added some hardy damsels to speed it up after about 3 weeks. I tried some fish after 2 months, resulting in loss, but the tank has succesfully housed fish for about the last 2 months-not counting the sick fish sold to me by the lfs and poor compatability instruction.

[Pufferpunk]

The only way you're going to get that parasite out of the main tank is by leaving it fallow (no fish) for 8 weeks, while putting the puffer in hypo at 1.009. You're going to need a lot bigger QT for him, for that long. Read the article in our Library & good luck.

I'm doing the same thing for my baby burrfish right now. The tank looks so empty!

[t1gerbee]

the ich parasite will continue to live in your main tank until it is either killed using hypo... or by medication (risky for puffers and leathal to corals, shrimp etc... corals, live rock etc cannot handle hypo either so both create problems)... alternatively taking ALL the fish out and leave the tank fishless so the parasite starves to death. hen quarentine the fish using hypo or medication...

Your puffer will keep getting re-infected everytime you re-introduce him as the parasite is still in your tank..... they are more succeptable to ich, which is why your others are coping with it in the tank, and not showing signs.

Also, how long are you quarentining him for? Find out about the ich cycle, you may think the parasite is gone, but it may just have fallen off to multiply (becoming invisible to the eye) before burrowing in the fish again and showing the crust (white spots)... this can take several days, the whole cycle can last up to a month....

long process back once you get ich in the main tank....

good luck.

[crazedpuffer]

Treat it fast, if it keeps getting it your puffers immune system will get worse and worse too. Is he otherwise a normally healthy fish?

[Pufferpunk]

Jennifer, I just got your Q at WWm (I'm on the Crew there). Do you want me to answer it there too? The best advice you will find, is right here.

[luvmypuffer]

No, Pufferpunk, that's okay. I thought these 2 were the best sites so I did both. I know I need to take my fish out of the tank, but I have only a 2.5 gal. sick tank and have been transferring water to it from the main tank.I have an extra 10 gal. and my mom has an extra 30 gal, but neither is a cycled salt water tank.My 10 holds feeder guppies and my mom's is empty. Is there any way to cycle marine water quickly so I would have somewhere to put them? Also, will the ich live on my anemones or starfish? Oh, I'm soooo confused!! don't want my fish die
Thanks for the advice,
Jennifer

[luvmypuffer]

To answer tigerbee's question, I am quarantining them for 5 days. That's the directions on the meds and it has been working. The meds I'm using do not contain copper, do you think I could treat my main tank with it without harming my anemones or starfish? I have nowhere else to house them, no big enough cycled tank. And yes, the puffer is otherwise acting normal-very good appetite, especially krill. He swims around the tank investigating all day long. Oh, by the way, the meds are called Lifeguard if that helps.
Thanks,
Jennifer
PS-If I can treat my tank with this, I know I need to remove the carbon from my filter, but do I turn my skimmer off also?

[mikeosoft]

The other people are correct about putting your fish into QT and leaving it fallow for ~8 weeks. Ich has a long lifecycle and you are not giving it enough time to die off without a host.

I would suggest using the 30gal as a QT tank. Chances are that any bacteria will die off as you reduce the salinity. The best way to deal with this is going to be very sparse feeding (twice per week at most) and LARGE daily water changes. Once the tank is down to a salinity of 1.009 it will probably start to cycle and that’s a good thing. But you'll need to lower the salinity at a faster rate than the bacteria is likely to survive.

I would not treat the main tank, meds in a display tank are never a good idea.

FYI, Krill is not very good for puffers (especially porc's) as it leads to lockjaw and is not very nutritious. Checkout the feeding article in the library.

[crazedpuffer]

To answer one of your questions. Anemones don't get ich, I'm pretty sure starfish don't either.

[luvmypuffer]

The 30 gal. tank is not cycled. I can't just put them in freshly started marine tank for QT, can I? The tank has just been sitting empty and I can't transfer the water from my main tank as it is the tank holding the parasite infection. I don't know, but I've got do something soon!
Thanks

[Puffer Queen]

Inverts and corals do not "catch" ich. The parasite has to feed off the mucous of a fish. The inverts and corals can transfer/transport ich.

[mikeosoft]

Initially I would take about 15gal from the main tank and use about 15gal of new water. IMO, since you're going to be significantly reducing the salinity in order to kill the ich anyways so anything you transfer initially is pretty moot. The cycle won't matter because you're going to change the salininity so fast that any bactera will die off anyways. You'll need to do 50-75% water changes daily in order to keep the water quality ok. If you don't have one, get a test kit so you can monitor ammonia/nitrite and pH on a daily basis. Read the ich article in the library if you haven't.

[luvmypuffer]

Puffer Queen, do you think it is safe to treat my main tank with the lifeguard i mentioned above? It does not contain copper and I don't have any corals. Just 2 anemones and the starfish.

[Pufferpunk]

As you posted the same Q here as to WWM & said you trusted both sites for good info, I think you should listen to the advise you are getting. You must leave the main tank fallow (without fish), for 8 weeks. The inverts can carry the parasite but it cannot live off them & will die without a fish host. You must QT all the fish & treat them with hyposalinity, according to Puffer Queen's article in our Library. The empty 30g, with simple filtration, is perfect. You must not use any of the water from your main tank. Get the temp, SG & pH the same for the 1st day. You will be testing the tank closely & start lowering the SG as per her article. You will do water changes according to the results of your daily testing.