Brackish water Ich or IPs?

[studmaster]

Hello all, I just moved my 2 GSP's from a small tank that my LFS told me would be fine for them to a 50gal. Prior I had them for about 3 weeks now. I did a proper fishless cycle on the 50 gal tank and all the readings were perfect.

I slowly added my GSP's and they loved the increase in tank size. About 12 hours later they started breathing heavily and staying near the top of the tank. They aren't swimming around like healthy fish at all. The one puffer has visible white spots (like grains of sand) on his fins....I don't see any on his body yet. His stomach is a grayish color. The other one seems a bit healthier, white belly, but is also at the top breathing heavily. I added an airstone last night, but this morning they were still breathing heavily. The one fish with the gray belly has visible signs of ich, but the other one doesn't....but its breathing heavily at the top of the tank. So I'm unsure weather to treat for ich or IPs......any suggestions? Is there such thing as brackish water Ich, that survives at 1.005?

Here's a run down of my params
Temp:80
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:10-20ppm
Salinity :1.005 (I think....I'm trying to cailibrate my hydrometer to make sure it is working correctly)
PH: 7.8

Tank size: 50gal
Fish Size: about an inch each
Other fish: One pleco that has always thrived in my brackish molly tank....he's growing like a weed.
**note the puffers and the pleco don't bother each other at all.
Filtration: Eheim 2217 Classic

Food: Mussels mainly -from local grocery store, freeze dried blood worms, frozen adult brine shrimp, and currently farming snails.

The tank is new and I recently add 3 new ornaments after running under water first.

I know I moved them over a couple days ago, but they didn't seem stressed at all over that. The one thing I can say is that the PH of this new tank is .2 higher than the old tank. Could that have put a lot of stress on them?

Any ideas?

[Pufferpunk]

Are you sure it's Ich & not just his spines?

Get the pleco out. He's not going to appreciate the SG those puffers are going to need soon.

[studmaster]

Are you sure it's Ich & not just his spines?

Get the pleco out. He's not going to appreciate the SG those puffers are going to need soon.

What I think might be Ich, is on random spots on his fins, so it doesn't look natural at all. Anyone have any good pictures of confirmed ich so I can be sure? I have tried taking pictures, but the glare off the glass doesn't help and without the flash they are always blurry.

[studmaster]

Just came home to check on them, they seem to be scraping themselves on plants and ornaments....looking to try to get something off. Does that help any with the diagnosis? They aren't breathing as heavily as last night now....that's a start.

[StormySkiez]

Sounds like ich . I can't find any good photos of SW ich.

Here is one photo: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=2420

And here is the artical from the puffer library on symptoms and treatment: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... tal/swich/

[studmaster]

Sounds like ich . I can't find any good photos of SW ich.

Here is one photo: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... cleid=2420

And here is the artical from the puffer library on symptoms and treatment: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... tal/swich/

Yeah it does sound like ich. And thanks I have read both the saltwater and freshwater article in the library. I'm just not exactly sure what to do with a brackish water setup. Add more salt or take more salt away. From what I read using copper or any other ich medication isn't the best idea.

[StormySkiez]

You have a good point. Is it FW or SW ich??? I would guess SW ich but we need experts to confirm.

[Agnate]

The parasite requires saltwater conditions to survive, therefore, by lowering the salinity the parasites will die off. This is called hyposalinity, and requires obtaining a Specific Gravity of 1.009

Unless your salinity is really high, I'm going to guess it's the Freshwater version. Might want to wait for some input from people with experience, though. But judging by the rubbing, it's definitely ich. I've read somewhere that frequent water changes and (I think) some form of temperature change can get rid of it over time, but I wouldn't trust my memory on something like that, haha.

[crazedpuffer]

Increase the temp, and do daily water changes.
The type of ich is dependent on the sg. low sg=FW ich, high sg=SW ich.
This is one of those times Where if it's bad I'd treat with meds, just to make sure it's killed properly.

[studmaster]

Increase the temp, and do daily water changes.
The type of ich is dependent on the sg. low sg=FW ich, high sg=SW ich.
This is one of those times Where if it's bad I'd treat with meds, just to make sure it's killed properly.

Shouldn't a higher temperature (say 84ish) and a SG of 1.005 kill of the ich then? I don't want to use meds if I don't have to, but I also don't want to lose the puffer.

[crazedpuffer]

That should do it. Just do water changes daily too and it should all be good.

[studmaster]

Well I'm going to try treating them for IP's and Ich at the same time. I'm increasing the temp in the tank to 84, and am trying to feed them soaked mussel (which the normally love) in Metronidazole. They don't seem to be very interested in that food though. I also bought Parasite Clear tablets and am thinking of putting those into the tank tonight.

They are comprised of:
diethyl (2,2,2-trichloro-1-hydroxyethyl) phosphonate, N[[(4-chlorophenyl) amino] carbonyl]-2, 6-diflourobenzamide, metronidazole, acriflavine.

I'm doing a WC tonight as well. Also I will probably add in some Pimafix and Melafix to help heal faster.

[studmaster]

First of all, my puffers are starting to look better already. They aren't breathing as heavily anymore and they seem to swim around a bit more. Also they ate for the first time in about 3-4 days last night. Thanks for all the help!

Second, for the people who have experience with Ich, after you turn up the heat (84degrees), how long does it take the white spots to fall off? I turned up the heat 3 days ago thinking it could be ich, but the white spots are still there....in the exact same locations as they were 3 days ago.

[Agnate]

Have you been doing the daily water changes as well? That's another key factor, as well as sucking up stuff on the bottom with a Python. Apparently the Ich (when it falls off), will fall into the substrate, and if you don't vacuum the substrate in addition to the water changes, there's a chance of re-occurrence (or so I think I remember hearing). I have no experience with Ich, though, but I imagine a treatment such as this would take a couple weeks or more to see major improvements. The water changes are likely good for the puffers' health, too, so there's multiple reasons to keep up the daily water changes until they're happy and plump!

[studmaster]

Hey, well I've been doing every other day water changes, partially because I'm also treating for internal/external parasites at the same time because they are showing signs of both. They really weren't in good shape when I got them. I will start doing every day water changes after the other meds are finished. As more time goes by they seem to be doing better and better. They are still hiding a lot together. I've read these aren't social fish, but my two are like two peas in a pod. Everywhere the one goes the other one follows. The one seems like it wants to play and nudges the other one softly.....and also was very protective over it when it was really sick.