Sunken belly, probably IP?

[By_a_coo]

Hey...

Yesterday I bought a new F8, when I got home I put him in a QT... the firts poo was whitish and his belly is very sunken (I thought of IP case), after acclimating him I gave him 2 little snails, he loved them . Last morning, I've noticed his poo's colour was normal and brownish, his general colour and his poo now look fine. He eats well for while, and I added some melafix in case he has some unseen wounds.

Now, I'm worried about his sunken belly, an I'm supposing to practice a IP treatment. I figured that many people have had good success with praziquantel and metronidazol. I tried to search instruction in how to use this meds but I couldn't find any. The article in this forum says:
"Praziquantel - Orally: 23mg/pound of body weight x one treatment. This of course would require the fish to be eating or would have to be tube fed." But how can I check my f8's weight to calculate the amount of medicine to put in his food? The same I'd say to metronidazol! I'll post his picture tonight so you can make sure if he has IPs. Can someone give me any clue about these meds?

QT water parameters:
Daily 100% WC
PH - 7.9
KH - 3
NH4, NO2, NO3 - zero

[mikeosoft]

I've had success using Metronidazol, but I've never been able to get a fish to eat anything soaked in Praziquantel (even with garlic). I think the Prazi tastes bad and they just spit it out.

As for treating, I just take a small scoop and mix it with the food. Let it sit for an hour or so then feed. Most of the meds will go into the water and won't be consumed so I wouldn't be too worried about overdosing.

[By_a_coo]

Even if the fish is colorful, has sunken belly, is eating and its feces isn't whitish, does it mean IPs???

[pufferfreak]

srry dont know much about sunken bellies except parasites cause them or something. but how much was your puffer.

[By_a_coo]

These are photos I took a few minutes after I gave him some shrimp, so his belly isn't very sunken and sorry for low quality pics:





In an ordinary way, his belly is really sunken... it scares me!

[mikeosoft]

It could be that the fish was just underfed and starving, but almost all these fish have IPs at the LFS's. I would probably treat for IPs, it's unlikely that it would do any harm if the fish doesn' have IPs.

[crazedpuffer]

Agreed.
It Does look starved and like IP could be possible, especially if it was starved.
I think it might be best to try and fatten him up first then treat for IP

[By_a_coo]

My F8 looks like Pandaking's puffer. My puffer looks very very very thin, which food would be the best to fatten him up?
I borrowed this photo from Pandaking to show you how thin my puffer is, but my puffer's behavior is actually active:

[mikeosoft]

I feed my F8 a mixed diet of snails, PE mysis, frozen bloodworms, small night crawlers, cherry red shrimp, and cut prawn. If you're trying to fatten him out a little I would soak the food in some sort of supplement like Selcon.

[crazedpuffer]

I'd use big hearty foods to fatten him up somewhat. I'd start treating for IP soon too.

[Myaj]

Since almost all puffers are wild caught (figure 8's are for sure as they are not bred in captivity), they will almost all have IP's. In the wild, it doesn't bother them too much, but the stress of capture, shipping, being in the store, etc, really lowers their immune system and lets the IP's get a strong hold.

If the puffer is really new, I'd give it a few weeks to settle in and see how it does. If its been a month or more and they are still looking that skinny, I'd try one of the IP treatments.

I personally use the levimasole/metronidazole route. Soak the fish's regular food in the meds for a while and then feed, usually you'll have to fast the fish for a few days before they are willing to eat it, as medicated food tastes awful. I don't worry really about the amounts.. I basically just put a tablespoon of water in a cup, add an equal amount of both meds (using the tiny measuring spoon from the metronidazole), dissolve it in the water, then soak the food. Even if a fish eats a ton of the medicated food, I've never seen any ill effects. However, if the fish is already weak and has a heavy IP load, the dieoff of the worms might be too much for its system to handle. Its really a risk you take every time. If you don't give them enough meds, not all of the parasites will be killed and they'll just reproduce back to previous levels. Or you can do a series of smaller doses, but I would say if you want to do that, instead of worry about the amount of meds the food is soaked in, only feed the fish a small amount of the treated food instead of its full feeding (mind you, with the treated food, they'll often eat less because it tastes so bad).

Some have had really good luck doing the pumpkin seed method, you might want to look into that one as well. A bit of work, but it avoids using commercial med's, which is a nice thing.

[By_a_coo]

I read a lot of articles saying that FW fish don't swallow water, so the treatment for IPs should be made with soaked food in medicines. Today I tried to fed him with soaked shrimp in metro+prazi, but he did refuse to eat that... so, I had to give him regular shrimp and he ate well. Yesterday I began to add into water Prazi (2mg/l) + Metro (5mg/L). I'm taking this dosage after reading that many people are having success with their Discus IP treatment. And they just add the meds into the water... Any advice?

[Myaj]

Did you fast him for a few days first to make him really, really hungry? You usually have to do that with med-treated food.

Fish can absorb meds through their skin, etc.. so treating the water does work, and often that's the route to take if they are gone so far that they refuse to eat at all anymore.

[By_a_coo]

today is the third day of the treatment, before I left my home I went there to check how my puffer is... and I noticed something like a transparent wool thread was getting out from his anus... what was that? uncommon feces? worm? Sorry I was not able to take a picture of that... =(

[crazedpuffer]

That's from the IP, one of the best signs too.