Thin F8 puffer - possibly ill?

[pandaking]

Hi there,

I recently acquired two figure 8 puffers for my brackish tank.
They are pretty good size compared to how I normally see them in shops - probably 6/7cm long.

Here is my problem:
One of them is nice and rounded, and looks...well looks like a puffer should.
The other one however, is quite skinny. He has the same big head as the other one, but then rather than just all being the same rounded shape, he gets thin and his head sticks out.


I make sure I feed them just so their bellys are full but not too much so they pop out, because these guys will just keep eating it seems!
He was like this when I got him, and could have been underfed I guess - but I have been giving them live snails and frozen bloodworm for the last couple of days and they both seem very happy.

Is this a common problem with F8's/puffers, and should I just keep a watchful eye on him?
Also, the skinny ones has two white patches on him, kind of looks like the salt trails you need to clean off the side of tanks when water drips down them.
They are round and about the diameter of a grain of rice. I don't think that it's ich, but then again I have never had it occur to any of my other fish tanks in the year or so I have been keeping fish.

I have some pics to show the size difference, but they are too blurry to see the two white patches. I appologize for the quality of these pics, taking pics of fish is surprisingly hard





Thanks for your time, I appreciate it

_____________________________________________________________________

More info (from my other posts) #1:

I had to mail order, so I couldn't check the fish out beforehand.
I had been on all of my LFS's order lists for months with no luck, but "Dartford Aquatics" were really helpful and I got these guys a week after ordering.

Interestingly enough, when the fish arrived, I thought they were both dead. I had most the lights off in the room but they looked dead on the bottom of the backs until I had the bags floating in the tank for about 30mins.
I read somewhere puffers sleep, but it may just have been that the water temp had got lower than it should have been.

____________________________________________________________________________________

More info (from my other posts) #2:

So I just fed them.
The skinny guy has become less active it seems. He is still eating, but he clearly isn't a happy bunny...or fishy

The healthy one was darting around the tank eating as much bloodworm as he can fit in his mouth - and occasionally having to spit some out to make more room His belly looked a little rounded before I fed him, so I don't know if one of my bumblebee gobies is no more or he found a stray snail or something hehe!

I tried making sure the skinny fish got as much food as I could give him, I was dropping food by hand in front of him, but his belly didn't seem to fill up at all. Still looked very skinny to me. No big bulge unlike the healthy one.
He is obviously hungry as he then when picking up all the bits of bloodworm on the gravel which the healthy one didn't bother with.
I know the healthy fishes poop looks normal (although he kind of puffed up last time he took one, very funny! ) but I haven't seen the skiny guy poop yet.

I might give Dartford Aquatics a ring and let them know the situation.
I don't mind loosing a fish if it was my fault, but when a fish comes with problems I am not so sure.

I actually already have some "Interpet Anti-Internal Bacteria" and "Waterlife Octozin" medication, for when I tried Dwarf Goruami's (a fish species which is riddled with internal nasties).
Do you reckon I should start this treatment? Is suitable?

I think I might start treating the tank with Octozin.

Thanks for all your help so far

____________________________________________________________________________________

More info (from my other posts) #3:

Well I will add Octozin now.
I don't think the little guy will make it though, he isn't swimming around now, and keeps doing barrel rolls on the substrate then lays still again. I don't see how the medication will help him now...
He looks like he isn't happy, whereas before he looked all right.

I will add the Octozin now and see what happens.

____________________________________________________________________________________

More info (from my other posts) #4:

Well I am actually using Sterazin.
I nipped down to my LSH and got some today.

After calling Dartford Aquatics, the guy on the phone was very helpful and said he thought it looked like a better product for the job.
His boss is going to call me later today, to let me know if he has any other ideas, and also to let me know if I can get my money back on this fish f he doesn't make it.
Lets hope that doesn't happen. In the short while I have had this little fish I have got quite attached

Will keep you updated on how I get on.

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More info (from my other posts) #5:

Well the Sterazin treatment has begun.
I forgot to add, I saw him poo today. First off, it was white/clearish, then it was brownish not very long, and was trailing out of him for about 2 hours.

The other one pooped again today, and it was about 5 times as long, and all dark brown, and it only trailed out of him for about 3 mins.

I have got some photos of the skin problem:


And also some of the more photos showing his general condition.
Interestingly enough he is now not on the bottom of the tank, but in the water flow form the filter.

____________________________________________________________________________________

More info (from my other posts) #6:

I am sorry to say when I got to my tank this morning, he had passed away
I am so sad.

I guess I will just keep a good look out on my other F8 and post here as soon as I think something is up. He seems fine at the moment.

One last question:
Should I just stop the Sterazin treatment?
I am meant to dose on days: 1, 3, 6, 8 & 10

It has only had the first initial dose, so I assume I just don't add the other doses, and do a few water changes...

Thanks again everybody for all your help, you have all been wonderful

[By_a_coo]

First of all

Pandaking, sorry to tell you, but I suppose your fish is in a horrible shape. Probably he is suffering form internal parasites, I'm not sure... How is his feces? Is he eating well? Did his belly get sunken too fast after feeding time? But at all, your fish is probably ill... We should wait for experts to reply..

BTW, what type of plant is this on the picture? I loved it!!! I want to get me some!! May I see a picture of your whole display? Can you tell me what kin of lightning and decor you're using? I'm so curious!!

[Agnate]

I'm not an expert, but that definitely looks like the signs of internal parasites. Here's a question you can easily answer: when you're feeding them, does his belly get nice and plump, but then sink back down to being skinny by the next day? If so, you've got a case of internal parasites. They're pretty easy to treat, but since I've never had fish with them (yet), you'll have to wait for someone to post the product you need. Once you get it, I believe you just soak their food in it before you feed them, and after a couple doses, the INITIAL parasites should be gone, and his belly should stay plump for 2-3 days after feeding him. However, you'll need to keep dosing his food (I think once every week) to make sure that any unhatched parasites die as they're born.

Hope this helps! Keep checking back today, as I'm sure someone will post the product you need!

[pandaking]

WOW! Thanks for getting back to me - I am so pleased I made this post, poor little guy.
I had to mail order, so I couldn't check the fish out beforehand.
I had been on all of my LFS's order lists for months with no luck, but "Dartford Aquatics" were really helpful and I got these guys a week after ordering.

Interestingly enough, when the fish arrived, I thought they were both dead. I had most the lights off in the room but they looked dead on the bottom of the backs until I had the bags floating in the tank for about 30mins.
I read somewhere puffers sleep, but it may just have been that the water temp had got lower than it should have been.


By_a_coo:
The plant in question is Microsorum Pteropus 'Windelov'.
I purchased this plant in one of my LFS, which was surprising as not only are there plant's very limited - they're also normally of poor quality.
This plant however is just great, I have had in in a freshwater tank for about 4 months, and put it in the brackish tank for some extra colour.
Some sources say it can cope with mild brackish set-ups, other sources say it won't - so we will see what happens

I will try and get round to taking a whole tank pic, although that corner is definately the best atm.
I also have Anubias in the front corner on that side, just about visible in that pic, and then behind the big piece of wood a plant pot with some "Java Joss" on it (I am trying to get the moss to grow on the background and the middle piece of wood too!)
Then I have some Twister Vallis which is just about surviving in brackish - it still hasn't decided if it can survive or not

The only plant I know is thriving in the brackish is the Anubias. The others "seem" to be doing OK for the moment

[pandaking]

So I just fed them.
The skinny guy has become less active it seems. He is still eating, but he clearly isn't a happy bunny...or fishy

The healthy one was darting around the tank eating as much bloodworm as he can fit in his mouth - and occasionally having to spit some out to make more room His belly looked a little rounded before I fed him, so I don't know if one of my bumblebee gobies is no more or he found a stray snail or something hehe!

I tried making sure the skinny fish got as much food as I could give him, I was dropping food by hand in front of him, but his belly didn't seem to fill up at all. Still looked very skinny to me. No big bulge unlike the healthy one.
He is obviously hungry as he then when picking up all the bits of bloodworm on the gravel which the healthy one didn't bother with.
I know the healthy fishes poop looks normal (although he kind of puffed up last time he took one, very funny! ) but I haven't seen the skinny guy poop yet.

I might give Dartford Aquatics a ring and let them know the situation.
I don't mind loosing a fish if it was my fault, but when a fish comes with problems I am not so sure.

I actually already have some "Interpet Anti-Internal Bacteria" and "Waterlife Octozin" medication, for when I tried Dwarf Goruami's (a fish species which is riddled with internal nasties).
Do you reckon I should start this treatment? Is suitable?

I think I might start treating the tank with Octozin.

Thanks for all your help so far

[crazedpuffer]

Never heard of it, can you name some ingredients?
Also IPs that severe are definitely not your fault.

[pandaking]

Oh, thanks for getting back to me. I have added links and updated my last post with more info

Also, what is an "IP" - Ill Puffer?

Thanks again...

[By_a_coo]

IP = Internal Parasites

[pandaking]

Got ya, thanks

So do you think I should treat the tank with "Octozin" then?

[By_a_coo]

Maybe Octozin should work out. Where do you live? Is it possible for you to get this stuff (Gel-Tek ULTRA CURE PX)? I have seen people around here talking about this medicine to treat IPs, well I've seen someone having great success with this one too - Jungle Parasite Clear. Google for both and you can find some websites that sell them on-line.

[Pufferpunk]

Do not treat the water. You must soak their foods in the med, to threat them internally.

[pandaking]

OK, thanks for the good info.

I live in the UK. I will take a look at both those items, see if I can find them...

[pandaking]

I can't find either of those two in the UK. I will try feeding the fish some garlic - I have heard that works too, or soaking food in garlic juice.

[smudger72]

Pandaking, feeding garlic won't cure the Ip problem it might make the puffer eat more though.
Unfortunately in the UK you can't buy any decent medications Geltek etc are not available here. I used Flubenol wormer with my F8's when they had IP's with great effect but I just checked and that is only available with a prescription
I think octozin is your best bet for now. I would say that you want to start treating asap.
Good luck.

[pandaking]

Well I will add Octozin now.
I don't think the little guy will make it though, he isn't swimming around now, and keeps doing barrel rolls on the substrate then lays still again. I don't see how the medication will help him now...
He looks like he isn't happy, whereas before he looked all right.

I will add the Octozin now and see what happens.