Has anyone ever heard of a black spot freshwater disease? Seems to be a secondary infection covering areas of damaged skin tissue on my fahaka, but appears as though it has spread to cover the fins too.
Looks like the cows are finally coming home on my puffers columnaris-like infection; something - likely bacterial - has seriously affected his upper lip, causing muscle deterioration such that he cannot open his top lip to breathe normally. Decreased appetite - clearly, it is painful to chew. Was first noticed as a series of vertical grey striations on his lip, until one burst open revealing white tissue, a bit of red, and some green pus oozing out of the wound.
Have him in quarantine with Furan-2 & Melafix, going to try feeding Furan-2 medicated foods as well. Doesn't look good though...
Mouth Lesions (was FW Blackspot disease?)
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Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Bred
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Mouth Lesions (was FW Blackspot disease?)
Last edited by Bred on Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Feathers&Fins
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That sounds awful. So sorry to hear that.
How about raising the SG a tad for him...just a little. Or do you think it may stress him out even more.
Have you thought about cloving him and using Mercurichrome on his wounds..PP seems to be a big fan of this stuff for open wounds.
Mind you...again...extra stress.
Fingers crossed for you both.
Pami.
How about raising the SG a tad for him...just a little. Or do you think it may stress him out even more.
Have you thought about cloving him and using Mercurichrome on his wounds..PP seems to be a big fan of this stuff for open wounds.
Mind you...again...extra stress.
Fingers crossed for you both.
Pami.
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Bred
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Thanks for the support, guys.
I have also raised the salinity a bit... Basically throwing everything I can at the problem, as long as the treatments don't counteract one another.
Furan-2 is gram positive & negative antibiotic. Each cap contains 60mg nitrofurazone, 25mg furazolidone and 2mg methylene blue trihydrate.
Day 2, blackspots remain pretty much unchanged.
I did use clove oil to inspect his mouth for tooth damage the day before his lip burst. In the process, some oil which had collected on the surface of the holding bucket came in contact with his skin. Due to its oily nature, it remained on his skin after transfer back to the main tank. As I found out undisolved clove oil in contact with the puffers skin causes 'burn' marks, these areas are the most heavily infected by "black spot", and it has indeed spread to his fins.
Seems to me (by casual observation) that black spot behaves more like a parasite than a bacteria.
I have also raised the salinity a bit... Basically throwing everything I can at the problem, as long as the treatments don't counteract one another.
Furan-2 is gram positive & negative antibiotic. Each cap contains 60mg nitrofurazone, 25mg furazolidone and 2mg methylene blue trihydrate.
Day 2, blackspots remain pretty much unchanged.
I did use clove oil to inspect his mouth for tooth damage the day before his lip burst. In the process, some oil which had collected on the surface of the holding bucket came in contact with his skin. Due to its oily nature, it remained on his skin after transfer back to the main tank. As I found out undisolved clove oil in contact with the puffers skin causes 'burn' marks, these areas are the most heavily infected by "black spot", and it has indeed spread to his fins.
Seems to me (by casual observation) that black spot behaves more like a parasite than a bacteria.
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Bred
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I've read up on some form of trematode which goes by the name of blackspot. It is a parasite and generally harmless, usually ocurring in earthy basins and brought in by infected snails. But the black cysts formed by this parasite are about 1mm large and raised from the surface of the skin, which is inconsistent with my observations.
I'm looking at something much smaller, does not appear to be raised from the surface of the skin, about 1/10th of a mm in size.
I'm looking at something much smaller, does not appear to be raised from the surface of the skin, about 1/10th of a mm in size.
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Feathers&Fins
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Feathers&Fins
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- Location (country): KY (USA)
- Location: (US) Kentucky
Did you ever get your tablesalt info? I'm afraid I still don't have any. I remembered the fw Black Spot reference. It was at http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-15 ... --,00.html . However, it looks like you have already ruled it out. How is your Puff?
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Bred
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Thanks for asking - the blackspot disappeared after ~5 days with 2tsp/gal salt, furan-2 and melafix. It went away in the reverse order in which it appeared - first cleared off the fins, then the body, then the wounds.
The infection still rages on. It's causing some irritation - he flips out and hits the walls of the tank with his mouth, reopening the wound.
Right now the wound is largely healed, but his lip is still dead. Grey vertical striations on the skin over top of the muscle still exist.
It's been about 2 weeks on Furan-2. I am going to try a new antibiotic soon and would appreciate any suggestions. Broad spectrum and powerful, please.
The infection still rages on. It's causing some irritation - he flips out and hits the walls of the tank with his mouth, reopening the wound.
Right now the wound is largely healed, but his lip is still dead. Grey vertical striations on the skin over top of the muscle still exist.
It's been about 2 weeks on Furan-2. I am going to try a new antibiotic soon and would appreciate any suggestions. Broad spectrum and powerful, please.
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Pufferpunk
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Feathers&Fins
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Is there anyway you could have a vet swab the lesion and identify what type of bacteria it is?
A combination of Neomycin and Triple Sulfa is commonly used to treat Seahorses with flesh errosion caused by Vibrio. The first is a wide spectrum antibiotic that works on both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. The latter is an antibiotic that works on gram-negative bacteria. I purchased mine at http://www.nationfishpharm.com . The company has a "Free Help Line" at 520-298-7814 if you're interested in calling them.
HTH
A combination of Neomycin and Triple Sulfa is commonly used to treat Seahorses with flesh errosion caused by Vibrio. The first is a wide spectrum antibiotic that works on both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. The latter is an antibiotic that works on gram-negative bacteria. I purchased mine at http://www.nationfishpharm.com . The company has a "Free Help Line" at 520-298-7814 if you're interested in calling them.
HTH
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Jager
Bred, nitro and fuzo antibiotics are usually the best broad spectrum ones out there they usually come mixed into one powder that turns water a yellow green. jungle products funugs eliminator has gotten me and the puffs through many an infection and prevents too many more after ich etc. However anynitro fzo mix is fine I just trust fungus eliminator since their balance seems to help the puffs alot more than it hurts the bio filters.
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Bred
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Well, he's been entirely off his food for at least a week.
I gave him one ParaGuard bath for an hour, no signs of stress.
Two days later, another bath, after 30 minutes he had basically stopped breathing. That was a tense moment. Immediately returned him to his tank, he began breathing more or less normally but was totally shocked - no eye movement, no response to visual stimuli.
The mouth lesions keep reappearing. He is producing copious amounts of slime both exterior and inside his mouth. It hurts him way to much to eat and he's stopped trying.
Last ditch effort is a Kanacyn treatment in QT. Unless he starts eating soon, I don't think he will last another two weeks.
I'm very sad... He's been on a downhill slide for months now, but it's really picking up momentum now. Ugh... I have a dreadful feeling it will come down to euthanasia. Fingers crossed in a big way that he starts eating soon.
I gave him one ParaGuard bath for an hour, no signs of stress.
Two days later, another bath, after 30 minutes he had basically stopped breathing. That was a tense moment. Immediately returned him to his tank, he began breathing more or less normally but was totally shocked - no eye movement, no response to visual stimuli.
The mouth lesions keep reappearing. He is producing copious amounts of slime both exterior and inside his mouth. It hurts him way to much to eat and he's stopped trying.
Last ditch effort is a Kanacyn treatment in QT. Unless he starts eating soon, I don't think he will last another two weeks.
I'm very sad... He's been on a downhill slide for months now, but it's really picking up momentum now. Ugh... I have a dreadful feeling it will come down to euthanasia. Fingers crossed in a big way that he starts eating soon.