First the information requested:
Nitrates: Approx 20 ppm
Nitrites: Approx 0.5 ppm
Hardness: 300ppm (very hard)
Alkalinity: Between 180-240 ppm
pH: Approx 8.0 (hard to get a good reading using the test strips I have)
Salinity: Varies between 0.04-0.06
Tank Size: 46 Gallons
Inhabitants: 2 Figure 8 puffers (both approx 1.5-2"), 3 Orange Chromides (approx 2"), 3 Bumble Bee Gobies, 1 Wasp Fish (aka Butterfly Goby), One Flag Fish. No live plant life.
Feed once a day; usually frozen blood worms, emerald diet, frozen spirulina/brine shrimp, the puffers also get live snails that we breed 1-2 times per week.
Cleaning: 5-10 gallon water change every week
Products used: Decholrinator, Sea Salt
Recent Changes: We've had one F8 puffer for about 9 months. We just added the second last week. We did add three flag fish a few weeks ago; two of which died. Not sure if the puffer attacked them or if they died naturally.
Setup: We cycled for 3 weeks with Danios (FW); then once the water was OK'd by our LFS we returned the danios and set up the tank for our brackish fish.
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Now the problem: Our original F8's color has gradually faded. I didn't really think much of it until we added the new F8 two weeks ago. The two puffers get along, never nip at each other or anything, and have healthy appetites. They don't bother any of the other fish in the tank. We're worried because our new puffers colors are starting to fade as well. When I say fade I mean the blacks are fading into browns. I've read that their colors are supposed to get more vivid as they mature; not less.
I know the water is too hard but don't know any way of softening it without adding driftwood. We had some in there but it got soft and stained the water yellow as the tannins (sp?) were released.
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Questions: Are there commercial products that can be recommended to soften our water? Is there a natural way to accomplish the same task? We do have two pieces of "holey" stone that raises the hardness of the water. We will take them out if necessary (although we love how they look).
Also, at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago they have a display of F8s and GSPs which are HUGE. Our puffers don't seem to be growing at a very fast rate. Is there anything at all described above that would indicate a problem that would stunt growth or cause their colors to fade?
Sorry for such a long post. Thanks to anyone who can offer some help!
Hard Water
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Hilly
- Mentor
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Re: Hard Water
Very much the water hardness is affecting them, it should be benefitting them.
You have nitrite readings, do you have any ammonia readings as well?
I'd say ou need to do some bigger water changes more frequently to get rid of the nitrites and possibly ammonia, say 50%. Sounds like the tank is going through some cycling. As it was cycled with Danios the bacteria would have supported them then if the brackish fish added require more bacteria because of the bioload then thats when you get this re-cycling so to speak.
You have nitrite readings, do you have any ammonia readings as well?
I'd say ou need to do some bigger water changes more frequently to get rid of the nitrites and possibly ammonia, say 50%. Sounds like the tank is going through some cycling. As it was cycled with Danios the bacteria would have supported them then if the brackish fish added require more bacteria because of the bioload then thats when you get this re-cycling so to speak.
Hilly
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Myaj
- Tech Team
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- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:27 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Bubba, turgidus
Paris, lined burrfish - Location: SE Wisconsin
- Contact:
Re: Hard Water
I agree with Hilly 100%. I'd be doing 50% changes each week if it was me, more considering you have nitrite readings. I like to keep my nitrates under 10 if possible as well.
You don't want to soften the water with chemicals, and the marine salt will buffer it back up anyways, so don't worry about that. I think my water is even harder than yours (been a while since I tested it though), but with brackish fish, as Hilly said, that's a good thing.
Also, how did you change it to brackish water? If you raised the salinity more than .oo2 a week, you could have killed off the biofilter you established in freshwater, which would contribute to the mini-cycle that's going on.
You don't want to soften the water with chemicals, and the marine salt will buffer it back up anyways, so don't worry about that. I think my water is even harder than yours (been a while since I tested it though), but with brackish fish, as Hilly said, that's a good thing.
Also, how did you change it to brackish water? If you raised the salinity more than .oo2 a week, you could have killed off the biofilter you established in freshwater, which would contribute to the mini-cycle that's going on.
