Fine dust & cloudy eye

[bigden]

Hi

I need some help with my porcupine puffer, Spike, I noticed small dust particle over is body and is eyes are getting cloudy. The story is the following; 55 gallons tank with Spike and a lunar wrasse in it. First of all I had really bad advice from my LFS, they told me I could cycle my tank with a fish in it. I had to spend a fortune in salt to keep up with the daily 50% water changes I had to do to keep to water parameters decent. The tank is now cycled for the last 10 days and now I noticed this on Spike, I am worry. Since everyting was going fine, this past saturday I bought a sea urchin, they told me it would help keep the bottom of my tank clean, Spike is messy when he eats . The sea urchin is out of the tank after 36 hours because the wrasse was harassing it. And now this, the lunar wrasse has no sign of it (for now anyway), and the sea urchin has no spots on it either. I am posting 2 pictures, one before and one with the dust particle that you can see on the fine. What is it? What can I do?

I am setting a tub of water to transfer him into it and I will lower the salinity by .004. Is this the right thing to do?
I will be checking my water and post those results in 15 minutes.

Thank you

[bigden]

Here are the water parameters :

Salinity - 1.021
Ammonia - no trace
Nitirite - .25 ppm
Nitrate - 10 ppm

By the way the sea urchin was transfered in a tank with 2 clown fish and 2 damsel. Keeping a close eye on them also but no sign of anything yet.

So I am setting up a tub of water with a slainity of 1.017 tonight and I am waiting until the morning before I transfer Spike in it.
What should I do with the wrasse?

[mikeosoft]

My first thought is marine velvet, although I'm not an expert. I believe the only effective treatment for this is copper, although it has to be used carefully. I would look for a product called Cupramine by Seachem. It is a nonchelated copper and can be used in much lower concentrations (important because puffers are particularly sensitive to copper). A test kit will probably be important to monitor the amount of copper in the water.

Kelly (Puffer Queen) should be able to help with some more exact information.

I'll also note that if your test kit is still showing nitrites that your cycle is not finished. Nitrites can also be toxic to puffers.

[spoot]

Do you have any live rock in the tank? If the tank is cycled there should be no nitrites. Does the dust look like small salt grains? It could be ich.

[bigden]

This is why I am so made at the LFS, they gave me a bunch of information that I now find completly wrong.
I don't have live rock in it, cause they told me I did not need it, but after reading some stuff I realize I do need to get some.
And I do realize now that the tank is not fully cycled.

[Pufferpunk]

I sent a PM to Puffer Queen about this. In the meantime, read the article in our Library about treating SW ich, to ID what you are seeing. If it is truly velvet, it can kill a fish within a week & should be treated with copper. What kind of substrate are you using? Do you have a tank available for quarantine?

[bigden]

I have 60 pounds of CaribSea OceanDirect sand in the tank. I have now setup a QT and will transfer the puffer into it when I get home after work( I will be leaving early because I want to transfer him as soon as possible).

The salinity is lower in the QT then in the display tank. Display tank is 1.021, QT is 1.017. I am doing this in case of ich.
Am I right in doing so.

Many thanks to all of you.

[mikeosoft]

If it is in fact ich, then you will need to slowly lower the salinity down to 1.009 (checked with a refractometer). The fish will need to remain at 1.009 for a period of at least a month. The display tank should have no fish in it for this time.

While its not completely clear, the spots look smaller than ich to me which would suggest velvet. Velvet is much more serious than ich, and like I said, I believe copper is the only effective treatment.

Either way, your QT tank won't be cycled so you'll need to keep up with large daily water changes and keep feeding to a bare minimum.

Does the fish seem to have labored beathing?

I'm sure you've already found out, but 55gal is way too small for a porcupine puffer long-term. If you're serious about keeping this fish, start looking into something at least 6ft long (125gal +) asap. It will also make your life much easier to invest in a good protien skimmer.

[bigden]

Yes i did found out I need a bigger tank and I am in the process of getting it. Today is the first day where Spike is not himself and thaty worries me alot.
The things I find bizarre is why the wrasse is not showing any illness.
Should I treat him too?
Should I transfer him in the QT with the puffer?

I just came back from the LFS with a product called "mardel" the ingrediant is Chelated Copper Sulfate. Is this the copper you're telling me about?
What would be an acceptable level of copper in the water? I got a test kit to check it. How should I gave hime to copper, in a bath (deep) or add the copper to the QT.

I really think it is velvet, the spot are so small and I remember seeing ich a few year ago and the spot where definitly bigger.

[bigden]

Spike is breathing normally, but his color have faded somewhat.

Should I restore the salinity or still bring it down to 1.009?

What about raising the water temperature?

Should I used the recommended dosage of medecine?


Thank you for your help.

[Pufferpunk]

I would wait until you hear from Puffer Queen here. What does the med say about how much to use? Do you have a copper test kit?

[mikeosoft]

It's best if you get NONchelated copper, but if it is velvet, you'll need to use something. I don't know what type of fish stores you have in your area, but any place that sells Seachem products should carry a product called Cupramine.

If you cannot find Cupramine then you'll probably have to use what you can find, I would follow the directions on the bottle.

If his breathing is not labored yet then I would say you have a shot at treating him successfully.

Like Pufferpunk said, Puffer Queen would really know best. Everything that I've said is based on things I've learned from her past recommendations.

[bigden]

I live in a small town, that his the only copper base medecine I could find. The big city is 50 minutes away, I could go after work tomorrow, but I am worry that if I wait to long to start medication I will loose him.

They indication are to mix 1 teaspoon (5ml) to every 4 gallons of water. They say it will maintain a copper level of 1.5 to 2.0 ppm when used as directed


P.S. Sorry about my English, I am french.

[Pufferpunk]

PQ's threads on:
Marine Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum):
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic35661-10-1.aspx
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic65488-10-1.aspx
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic67167-10-1.aspx

[bigden]

Well, Spike has been in the QT for a little bit more then 24 hours now with chelated copper sulfate.

Yesterday he didn't want to eat anything, today he eat a big krill and clean up the small left over pieces at the bottom of the tank.
I think that his color are coming back. I am staying cautiously optimistic that I will save him.
No it's time to go do a water tests and then a water change, put some more copper to keep the level to 1ppm.

Take care.