The Puffer Forum

I have a problem - I have a 55 gallon tank that has 2 Green spotted Puffers and one Placo in it. We had a Figure-8 puffer that recently died and apparently from the same thing.

Water parameters as of 6/28/2007
Ph - 7.0
Ammonia - 0 to .25 ppm
Nitrate - 0 to 5 ppm
Nitrite - 2 to 5 ppm (a little on the high side)
Salinity - 1.008

Our last water change was about 10% on May 28th, but we are getting ready to do another one. We try to do them about once a month - and we vacuum about the same.

We noticed that one GSP had a white puffy kinda fuzzy looking area on each side of it. The Figure-8 puffer, who was smaller, had it all over him. This came up very quickly and the next day (June 6th) the Figure-8 was dead. We put the GSP in a small hospital tank with a bubbler, but no filtration.

The ailment looked fungal in nature and we treated the GSP with Maroxy (by Mardel) We started treatment on 6/6 and every other day we did a water change. The fish was still pretty active, played in the bubble curtain, and swam around really well. She ate pretty good too. On the 26th, we noticed that the fish looked no better, no worse. We figured that if she was ever contagious, she was over it. Since she looked good, we went ahead and put it back in the 55 gallon tank.

Today, two days later, she looks a little worse. Still active, still eating, but looks white and puffy.

I took photos and I will email them to someone if they will post them for me.

Oh two other things -
1 - When the tank lights are off, both GSP's look 'weird'. Their color is pale and their bellies are dark. We turn on the lights and in a few minutes, the colors become more vivid and the bellies lighten up. Is this normal

2- We think that both GSP's are partially blind. They seem to see shadows, but do not react to anyhting going on ouside the tank .... is this very unusual. This apparent blindness has been giong on for about a year.

Contact me at the-hurds@netzero.com if you would like to.

Thanks in advance for an help you can provide.

The puffer is definately sick because of poor water quality. The nitrite is not "a little high" it's well into deadly for puffers. Any ammonia is also unacceptable, you have the tank uncycled somehow and it needs 50% daily water changes until nitrite and ammonia always read zero. If you have any kind of ammonia absorber in the filter, remove and discard it. If they are seeming blind they must have had eye damage, have they ever had cloudy eye? It's very common in tanks with degrading water quality. Additionally, no matter what your nitrates are reading, you need to do weekly 50% water changes to maintain water quality high enough for green spotted puffers. Many things may keep nitrates down, but they do not remove other toxins from the water, and when they build up, they damage the puffers immune system and lead to fin and tail rot, fuzzy growth, etc.
The color change due to lighting is normal.
On a side note, the pleco is suffering at that SG - it's going to shorten his life, so he should probably be rehoused.

First of all - thanks for the reply

Regarding the Pleco, I have heard that Plecos are very robust and can stand a somewhat brackish enviroment - since he has been in there, he has doubled in size and seems to be doing very well. He's been in the tank since November 12th 2006.

When we first got this tank and set it up, we were told that it shouldn't need such drastic water chages. Now - I have heard that some people have great success with the 50% weekly water change drill, because the fish are always in fresh water, but with such drastic water chages, a good healthy colony of bacteria never get a chance to become established. It is my feeling that the only reason that 50% weekly chages work is because the water is chaged so much, and so often, that nothing gets too bad ....... however, I was told that these frequent larger water changes make it so the tank never really gets a chance to cycle properly.

Just looking for opinions here. I have had these fish since September 2005, so I am not a complete newcomer, but I haven't been keeping puffers for a full two years either.

Puffers are very messy and after eating produce lots of waste (ammonia) Most bacteria is on decorations in the tank and the substrate and water carries very little bacteria. Do the 50% water changes weekly like Nick said. Also your Pleco might be fine now but in the long run it's immune system will start to fail. Also GSP's need full marine when they are full grown and the pleco def. won't survive that.

Ok - you have convinced me on the water changes.

Of course, the sick one was getting 100% water changes every other day, and she didn't get better .... so any suggestions on what is going on w/ her?





I tried to upload a couple photos ... hope it works

Oh yeah -

How long before a GSP is 'full grown' ???

Also - the sick one is about the size of a golf ball and we've had it since September 05 - my other one is the size of a racketball ball, or handball and we got is in December 05

They both started out about the same size - but the one that is larger now has grown faster. About how big should I expect a GSP to get in captivity? Baseball sized? Softball?

How long before I absolutely need to go full salt?

That's it for now - but your replies might raise more questions

Those appear to be bite scars. My guess is that they are attacking each other when you aren't watching, likely at night.

They are most likely stunted from bad water quality. My guess as to the reason why your tank is showing nitrites and ammonia is because your bioload is too heavy, you have too many fish in too small of a tank. Unfortunately, you were mislead. Water changes do not affect the cycle at all. The bacteria needed for the biological cycle do not live in the water, they live on surfaces such as the filter media, gravel, decor, etc.

Please read the GSP care sheet in our library, that should answer most of your questions and tell you the proper care for them. GSPs and Figure 8s are not compatible, they require different water conditions.

There are a few plecos that can live in brackish water, but they aren't available in the trade. While your pleco may appear to be doing okay, you are subjecting him to unhealthy conditions for him and it will likely lead to a very shortened lifespan unfortunately.

These pics remind me of a bacterial infection that someone had with a GSP that could've possibly been a Sabahensis. White patches appeared and spread, ultimately the guy didnt make it. Not saying that this is a bacterial infection but they do remind me of it.

My first thought was scarring from bite marks or whacks from the plec. I too advise no less than 50% water changes weekely for any puffer tank

My only question about bite marks ....
We had the puffer out of the tank for 20 days, no other fish in the hospital tank, if they were bite marks, why wouldn't they appeared to have healed? These spots looked much the same on the 26th as they did on the 6th.

I will do some research on the bacterial infection - thanks

They appear to be healed scars.

yeah I agree, scars.

Well - I cannot describe these areas - but if you saw them in person, you could easily see that they weren't 'healed scars'

We put her back in the 55 gallon tank on the 26th of June and at first she seemed no better, but no worse. We did notice that sometimes the areas looked a little worse and sometimes a little better - but we chalked it up to her 'normal' color changes.

Today, she looked 100% worse and her left eye was bulged out and white. We felt we had no choice but to put her down.

I hope we did the right thing - but what's done is done. At least the other GSP looks un-affected