The Puffer Forum

I have had three Figure Eights for about two weeks now, and they all seem to be sick. At first, I noticed their fins were starting to look ragged, I suspected nipping and started setting up another tank to separate them. However, the fish started developing white patches (not ich-like) on their bodies and their fins got worse. One puffer got very weak and could not swim, and it eventually died. I have been treating the tank with Quick Cure (formalin - at half dose as they are scaleless) and Melafix (full dose). What does it seem like the puffers are sick with? Is Quick Cure good for curing puffers? What dose should I give them? What other measures could I take?

The water is brackish (1.01), could the juvenile Figure Eights be wanting fresher water? Also, their eyes look slightly cloudy and their color is pale. Please help these puffers by giving me some advice - Thank you!

*MOD EDIT- Post moved to the Hospital Forum

Yikes. I would NOT dose any tank with a formalin/malachite green combo... this stuff is very toxic and I would only use it in a dip. Not only that but it will kill any beneficial bacteria in the tank, and make it hard for your fish to breathe if no additional aeration is added. That said, it sounds more like a bacterial/fungal infection so I would add pimafix & melafix to the tank.
Ich will look like more like small grains of salt than patches. A fungus will look like a white cottony growth. Fin rot (ragged fins) should also be treated with Pimafix.

I would do water changes immediately to dilute the formalin/malachite green cocktail you have in there killing off all of your beneficial bacteria. With no real way of measuring the levels in your tank, you are probably adding to the problem as your puffers are very sensitive to these medications. Also, malachite green's toxicity is dependent on tank temperature, pH, and lighting, absorbs quickly into decor & plastics... Really not a good thing to add to a tank without paying very close attention to your parameters.

Has the tank been cycled?
Please post the params (pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, temp, tank size, etc).

Next time I would go with a much less drastic measure, especially since puffers are so sensitive to medications (scaleless). It is very possible over-crowding and poor water conditions made them stressed & vulnerable, causing this outbreak.

I definitely agree with the above.

Tank is 15 gallons, ammonia is .25, nitrates/nitrites ?, tempurature is low (72). I'm not sure what to do, what percentage water change do you recommend? Should I lower the salinity?

I'd start doing 80% water changes 2x/day/ That tank is only large enough for 1 F8. There is no way for that tank to cycle with that many puffers in there. You will always have problems with ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/pH. 3 F8s require 35g.

80% 2x/day!? That's a lot of water changes. I'm changing 50% right now and within a few days one puffer will be in its own 20gallon

You have to keep the ammonia/nitrites at 0 all the time (extremly toxic, especially to puffers). The only way to do that with an overstocked, non-cycled tank is large, frequent water changes.

Well, they seem to be getting worse - I changed 50% of the water and put a powerful air pump in the tank to aerate the water. But my question now is about cycling the tank. At 80% water changes twice a day, how will the tank cycle? And why does have too many puffers in a tank keep it from cycling? Do they excrete more ammonia than other fish? I was also under the impression that the tank HAD cycled, since I ran it for about a week and a half (on an already mature fitler, mind you) with five or six feeder guppies and ammonia was running at zero. I agree that stress may have been a factor, but the water conditions in the tank seemed to be fine.

The bacteria isn't in the water column, its on surfaces, so doing water changes isn't going to affect the cycle. The more fish you have, the more waste they produce. Cycling is the process of building up the right kinds of bacteria to convert the ammonia in their waste to nitrites, then convert the nitrites to nitrates. Both ammonia and nitrites are deadly in very small amounts. The higher bioload you have, the harder it is for there to be sufficient bacteria to handle the conversions. Puffers are poop factories and are messy eaters, so yes, they have a higher bioload than many other fish. Five or six feeder guppies definitely isn't sufficient to create enough bacteria to handle three puffers. That's why you are now showing ammonia.

I would also highly recommend using Prime as your declorinator, as it will help detoxify the ammonia and nitrites so they won't poison the fish, but will still be available for the cycle.

Aside too much fish in the tank you probably killed your bacteria populations with formalin. That is another (or perhaps THE) reason, why you have ammonia, it is re-cycling now. All the "harder" meds like copper/formalin/antibiotics etc. should only be used in hospital tanks or a dips.

With regard to the needed water changes I agree completely.

But I don't think ammonia/nitrates is the issue here - there is something else going on. View picture:

Gills look very red, possibly a result of the ammonia.

Would Ammo-lock be a quick fix?

And what are those white splotches everywhere (and around the eye). And look at the caudal fin, what is causing that?

Some are bitemarks form other puffers, the white blotches look like bacterial infection, maybe in combination with fungus.