The Puffer Forum

Hi, I have been reading the posts on here for awhile now but I havent posted untill now!

I have a Juwel Rio 125 stocked with 6 Tiger Barbs, 4 Zebra Danios, 5 Otos. I would like to also get 2 SAPs. I think from what Ive read they should be able to get along together as the Tigers and Zebras are tough/fast moving fish.
I am currently filtering the tank with a fluval internal 2+ and a 3+ (both in together) How much more filtration, if any, would I need with the puffers?

I was looking into getting an external canister filter, maybe a fluval 205/305 instead of the internals to free up some more space in the tank and make it look nicer as well. Would one of those be up to the job of over filtration sufficiently?

I would use the fluval 2+ filter in the snail tank that I will set up to keep the SAPs happy and well fed! (I know I will still have to trim the teeth )

Thanks for any advice pointers.

There's a good article in the library

http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... n-puffers/

thanks for the reply but every time I try to view the library it crashes my Internet explorer!

could someone copy and paste it to here for me?

thanks, sorry to be difficult!!

Here you go

South American Puffers: A Great First Puffer
Author: Robert T. Ricketts

Which puffer to select for your first fish from this family is not a simple choice. The whole family is erratic in appearing in local fish stores (LFS). To make matters worse, the true freshwater (FW) puffers are less often seen than the brackish members of the family in my area - no matter what the store labels them. But due to the simplicity of FW over brackish water (BW), I suggest that this might be the best place to start.

The South American FW puffer, Colomesus asellus, is found in the wild in the upper areas of the Amazon system in Brazil, Colombia, and Peru. The fish in your local shop will be imports from there as these fish are not yet bred in captivity. This family has multiple freshwater species. These are secondary freshwater fish, meaning that the group originated in the sea, and through geologic time have adapted to give rise to totally FW species in South America, Asia, and Africa. As they are secondary FW fishes, they are fairly adaptable to water parameters, and so should adapt well to your local water supply so long as it is suitable for keeping fish at all. This gives you a break in tank maintenance, since no water modifications are required.

The South American FW puffer is neither tiny nor jumbo, reaching about 3 inches (standard length, without the caudal fin) if not crowded, and fairly round-bodied. If you are conservative and want to keep only a single fish, a 15-gallon tank will serve, although a 20 would be my choice for a permanent home (either the long or high style is fine, but the longer format is preferable as these fish need swimming space). These fish will appreciate sturdy and hardy plants if you have any plant-growing skills, as they like a visually complex environment and will explore routinely. Caves or other overhangs are also appreciated by many puffers, so a couple (to allow choice) of these would be good as well. If you are not a plant grower, rocks and driftwood will serve the same function. As puffs are high-personality fish, and South Americans are hunter-predators and active fish, a singleton will not be a boring tank in any way. They will recognize you and beg for food just as do many other pet fish. As these fish are among the mildest in the family, tankmates are a possibility, but not without risk. If you take the live plant path, don’t count on plant-maintenance live crews such as Amano or Ghost shrimp, or snails. Both of those groups are prime puffer food. Even Otocinclus species cats are not guaranteed safe, but may be ignored if you are lucky. Dwarf plecos such as Peckoltia species may be a bit safer if plenty of hiding places are provided (rock piles or bogwood tangles), in part because these fish tend to be more nocturnal. The Peckoltia cats cannot groom small-leafed plants very well in my experience. They are just not built for it. A moderately lighted tank with low to moderate-light plants will make algae control much easier.

As these fish tend to be tolerant of conspecifics (more of the same kind of fish), you can keep a trio if you select a larger tank, say a thirty-long (36″) or a forty-long (48″). Remember the suggestions above about a visually complex setup (from the fish’s view, not yours) with broken sight lines through the tank and several refuges (more than the number of fish). I know these tank sizes may seem out of proportion to folks who have only kept community tanks previously. Puffers tend to be poor community fish. They are active, may be nippy, and have teeth and jaws that are fully capable of taking a chunk out any other fish sitting around or swimming by. This particular species is not very aggressive - for a puffer. That does not mean it is always trustworthy. There is also a very wide variation in the aggression shown by particular specimens within any species. And like goldfish and Oscars, they also appear to be always hungry - which does not mean they always need to be fed. This means they are more than willing to taste anything that appears edible - including tankmates. They are not fish-eaters by nature, just curious and ready to try anything that looks potentially edible.

One reason for suggesting the spacious quarters is that these are messy fish. Think of miniature Oscars or goldfish. Nearly constantly active without being hyperkinetic, they need space and volume to adapt well to captivity and to grow to normal size. They are also, like Oscars and goldfish, messy eaters. The nature of their mouths and fused teeth results in wasted bits of food left in the tank water and gravel. More water volume gives you a higher margin of safety, when paired with good mechanical and biofiltration and regular water partials. These fish do need high quality water with zero unoxidized metabolites (ammonia and nitrites) and with low nitrate levels. Good tank maintenance is very important to these puffers and actually to the family in general.

One of the strong recommendations for this puffer is appearance. They are rather bumblebee-like with alternating irregular bands of dark brown to almost black, with intermediate bands of yellow. Their bellies are white when they are happy and healthy. Gray or sooty-looking bellies can be a symptom of stress if persistent. Overall they can be one of the most attractive puffers. Unfortunately, not all specimens seen have good clear colors. Some are duller and a less sharply marked. You cannot always tell whether the stressed fish in the dealer’s tank will brighten up fully or not, but if any of the fish in the LFS show bright clear color, the odds are the group will brighten up under good care. The ones that do will keep their bright coloring for years. As their lifespan should easily exceed ten years in your care, possibly substantially longer, this is no small thing. Don’t be concerned when their morning colors are blurred or faded, many fish in this family show general muddying of color and markings while they sleep. They should brighten up soon after they are awake and swimming about.

Newly purchased fish need quarantine - this can be in their permanent tank if it is pre-cycled. Puffers generally do not come in to the LFS in the best of shape. They have been overcrowded (resulting in nips and bites), underfed or improperly fed (weight loss and/or malnutrition), and subjected to multiple water changes without proper cautions (still more stress). Don’t buy fish with severely concave bellies. Flat bellies may be okay - South Americans are not as chunky as many puffs even when well fed. After eating they may show a bit of a potbelly, but seldom to the extreme some of their relatives may show. Ich is readily treated in my experience by salt and heat (I use one teaspoon per gallon actual volume and raise the temperature to the low to mid-eighties Fahrenheit). Velvet is a bit more difficult and may be seen in the LFS at times. I tend to leave these infected fish in the store. Once through adaptation to you and your care, they are quite hardy so long as you maintain water quality.

Feeding is not a problem, but does require live and frozen foods. Snails are their natural prey. Freeze-dried krill (presoaked before feeding, using vitamins in the pre-soak is frequently suggested and I do) is another good food. Frozen or live bloodworms (midge larvae) are readily taken. Frozen shrimp from the grocery store may be cut to smaller pieces while frozen and stored for individual meals. Very small new puffers may be started with live adult brine shrimp, preferably with the introduction of frozen bloodworms at the same time. I’m not too convinced of the nutritional value of live brine shrimp as a staple without extra handling, but they are great for getting new pets to eat. Pairing a readily accepted food like this with a more nutritious food may convince the puffers that the bloodworms or other “new” food can be tasty too. Other LFS types of frozen food such as mussels, clams, squid, etc., are learned as well. But a substantial part of any hunter type’s diet should be crunchy foods which will help wear down the puffer’s constantly growing teeth. This species has the fastest growing teeth of any species that I have kept, so for me the primary food given is snails that I raise myself.

These are very attractive, intelligent, active fish, which are long term quite easy to maintain. They are among the longer-lived of the “pet” fish with enough personality become real pets. If you want to try something other than community fish, a single puffer or a group of compatible puffers may change you attitude toward fish tanks, and will provide many hours of pleasure for very few hours of work invested.

For more information on keeping puffers, see:

Introduction to Puffers

Breeding Snails

Basic Snail Breeding

thanks for that, there is some good information there. It dosent have anything about the filtration in there though, does anyone have information/pointers about that?

My tank is already visually stimulating with 2 large lumps of bog wood and a fair few plants. I would be getting some more before I got the puffers to make it even more visually complexed. It is a 33g tank.

Thanks

I dont know why your links dont work with the library, thers lots of good information written by puffer keepers. Maybe check your settings for IE or check for updates from MS.

I had my Abei in a Rio 125, I had the standard 600 lph filter and also a Fluval 4+ 1000 lph.

I have just stripped the tank down and will be fitting an external filter probably a TetraTec EX1200, 1200 lph and leave the original in the tank too.

Puffers create a lot of mess and you need a lot of bacteria. Water circulation is normally 10 times the tank size per hour, or 1250 lph for your tank. But you need large filter media for the bacteria not just flow.

Your 2+ is 400 lph and the 3+ is 700 lph.

In addition to all the filtration you will need to do a minimum of 50% water change per week to keep your nitrates below 20 ppm.

Thanks for the info bosshogg. I currently have 0 nitrates because the plants use them up, maybe the added load would help them grow better as well!

I have viewed the library before with no problems so im not sure what it is atm. I will have a play, maybe turn it off/on and see if that helps!

Do you think I am heading for big trouble with what I am planning to do or have I got a sporting chance of making it work?

trademark wrote: Do you think I am heading for big trouble with what I am planning to do or have I got a sporting chance of making it work?

I don't know as I have not had SAP'S, hopefully someone will comment.

Just happy to give you a bit of help with the basics/own experience.

PS try your security settings if using IE 7 it's a bit ott or download Firefox

Far too small IMO. 125 liters is about 33 gallons. Aside from the fact that I wouldn't put SAPs with tiger barbs as the tigers tend to be too nippy, there's not enough room in that tank for 2 SAPs IMO.

I have never seen any aggression from the tigers, keeping them in a small shoal is meant to reduce the aggression and i think it has worked in this instance.
Would 1 SAP itself be a recluse?