The Puffer Forum

I purchased a F8 puffer a few days ago from a LFS. It's about 1.5" long with a nice white belly. I had just recently broken down a 10 gallon tank and he is in there right now. I added Bio Spira when I put him in.

I've been monitoring his water parameters to check for any spikes. 2 days ago, I saw that ammonia was at .25, nitrites at 0, and nitrates at .7. I gave him a 25% water change and in the new water, I added about a teaspoon of marine salt. He was originally kept in FW, so I wanted to bring the SG up gradually.

Today, I noticed that ammonia is at .25 again, nitrites at .25, and nitrates were at .7ppm. I gave another 25% change and added more fresh water, this time no salt. I just did another test on ammonia and nitrites. Ammonia is at 0ppm and Nitrites are at about .10ppm.

He is now laying at the corner toward the front of the tank...so I'm not sure if anything is wrong. His stomach color looks normal...no dark spots or anything. I've been giving him freeze dried krill and snails for the past 2 days, which he would eat until his stomach is nicely rounded. I don't want to overfeed him, so I take out the leftover piece of krill after a few minutes. He ate snails yesterday with no problem at all, but today, he didn't think of touching them. I also notice that his belly loses its roundness about an hour after feeding. His stomach doesn't look concave, but I'm wondering if it can be parasites?

Should I do another water change? Add more salt? I don't want to lose this little guy. He would stay in his corner, come out to swim a little bit if he saw me doing something near the tank, but would return back to the corner.

Sounds kinda like a bad bottle of bio-spira
dead bacteria showed up as nitrate (once they consummed the ammonia in the bottle they produced nitrate and died)

It sounds like your your tank is cycling (small cycle)...do daily water changes to keep ammonia and nitite down

As for the F8...its normal for them to be skidish at first...and if he feels secure in the corner..so be it.
As long as he does not appear to be gasping for air, and is hugging either the surface or the bottom.

Personally, I have not had any experience with parasites...will have to let some one else comment on that...but if he doesnt start eating, and putting on weight...I would try treating..

As far as him hanging out in the corner, he does spend quite a bit of time laying at the bottom. Then occasionally, he would get up and swim up and down a few times and then he will return back to his original spot and stay there for a while.

I am a bit concerned about my puffer. I woke up this morning and did another water test. Ammonia was at .25 ppm, nitrite at .25ppm, and nitrates at 5ppm. I added some Prime and also gave a 50% water change just now.

He is looking really skinny that his stomach is starting to concave. I tried soaking some food in Garlic Guard to get him to eat, but I didn't have any luck. Could this be parasite or worms? His stomach has taken on a slight pink hue on some areas, but not all.

Those nitrites are huge! Another big water change immediately! I'd do 75% water changes a few times a day and dose with prime to detoxify.

Parasites are the least of your worries right now. You need to get those water parameters under control ASAP.

Getting another pack of bio-spira may be a good idea, just make sure it's been refridgerated.

I'm sorry. It was a typo. Nitrites are actually .25 ppm...not 2.25ppm.

Well that isn't as bad, but you should still be doing at least daily 75% water changes and following the directions on the bottle of prime for detoxifying the ammonia and nitrites. The tank is cycling and puffers are very sensitive to a cycling tank. Bio-spira would be a good idea to try again.

I just did another test. Ammonia and Nitrites are both at .10ppm. Would adding more Prime mess with the cycling? The packet of Bio-Spira I got was for a 90 gallon dose, as that was the size that the store only had. I ended up using only half the package, sealing it back up and placing it back in the fridge. The only store in town that I got it from isn't opened yet.

For math sake, since I just did a 50% water change, to do a total of 75% for the day, do I do another 25% at this point?

Thanks in advance.

Doing a 50% water change, and then doing a 25% water change is not the same as doing a 75% water change.

Adding prime will not negatively effect your cycle and it may in fact speed it along. Prime does not sequester the ammonia or prevent the bacteria from using it, in fact, it does the opposite, transforming it into a more readily available form.

Check out the info here, especially the FAQ: http://www.seachem.com/products/product ... Prime.html

Thank you for the link. It is good to know.

So as far as giving it another water change, should I do another 50% or 75% at this point, since doing a 25% on top of the 50% I just did won't be the same?

Once I get the readings under control, how should I handle his food since he won't eat the Garlic Guard soaked krill? I was thinking of giving him some Anti Parasite food by Jungle (soaked in the GG).

He is so skinny that I see bumps along his stomach. No dark patches or rings yet. I just want to be prepared.

He may just be too stressed at the moment to eat.

Do you have any other foods to try?

If you're interested in water change math, check out this very detailed article from our library: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/ ... emath.html
and http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/ ... hange.html

Thank you, Phaedrus, for answering all these questions so quick. Looks like I'll be doing another 50% on top of what I did to turn it into a true 75% change. I will be reading the links more in depth.

As far as timing...how long should I give the puffer a chance to eat before ruling out stress?

As far as foods, I have freeze dried krill (which he likes but isn't eating), freeze dried plankton, freeze dried bloodworms, frozen bloodworms, frozen mysis shrimp, frozen krill, and frozen plankton.

Prime will not affect the cycle..it just detoxifies, but the ammonia and nitrite are still bio available
...

For feeding...soak food in garlic gard, and antiparasite meds...and try putting it on a scewer and moving it infront of him...may be more prone to strike at a moving target (even if it is just outta annoyance)

as for water change math...50+25 does not = 75
since when you add water it dilutes the impurities...
Phraedrus's link will explain it better than I could

Thanks guys, for all your answers. Puffers seem so much more difficult, that I was starting to lose hope. I really don't want to lose this little guy.

I gave the tank another 50% about 30 minutes ago and just retested the water. Ammonia and Nitrites are both at 0.

I don't know if it's my imagination...but it seems maybe he's doing a little better. He was kind of hanging out at the top in one corner. Now, he has swam to the bottom and is hiding between one of the groundcover silk plants staring up at me. His fins have seemed to have opened up some, while they were pretty clamped earlier.

I'm going to run out and get some antiparasite food just in case. I would rather have it on hand and be prepared. I'll try feeding him again in an hour...hopefully it'll be enough time for him to destress. If he won't eat, then I'm going to start thinking about doing the medicated food.

Puffers are not really more difficult, they just do not deal with ammonia or nitrite well at all, plus they do get stressed by radical changes - such as moving from the store to your home. From the moving stress they tend to come back soon. The toxic metabolites are very dangerous to them at any time.

It does take back to back 50% changes to equal a 75% change. Partials are not additive, they are percentages of initial concentrations at the start of each particular change.