The Puffer Forum

hi to all
first let me start by sayng that i have kept african rift valley cichlids for years now with no probs so i am not new to fish keeping but these puffers have got me stumped.

heres the story so far......my better half Tina) wanted puffers for years so we went to a lfs for help and advice.....we came away with a set of instructions and food and a lovley topaz puffer. he was called burt. dont know why he looked like a burt to me. he mouched arround for an hour or so then we treid him on some food. a nice big mussel. no probs there, in fact he looked like he had never been fed the way he ate it. by week 2 to 3 he was eating from our hands and was so freindly that when you did any mantiance on the tank he would swim into our hands and seam to like being gently rubbed. on week 4 he ate as normal at night then didnt eat the next morning. we didnt think much of it but when he didnt eat that evening we started to worry. by day 2 we tried a 50 % water change (please bear in mind he had been given a 25% a week every week) still no difference. we did the same a day latter no difference. tried differrent foods ie live shrimp, cockle, mussel and prawn. still didnt take anything. saddly burt died on day 5. we were gutted. i went to the lfs to ask what i had done wrong and he said we done it all by the book. put it down to an internal infection. he let us have a new one at cost a whooping 50% cheaper.

now this one was called big burt. he was a bit bigger at 4.5" or so. im affaird to say that burt died yesterday at week 7 excatly the same way. over night stoped eating. 5 days later died. this time we treated for a bactierial infection in the water then in the last night gave him in injection of batruim which tina got from work as she works in a vets. the vet had showed us how and when to use it so we tried it as he looked like he was going to die anyway. it didnt help.

we were sold these puffers as fresh water guys but every where on here it says they are brackish. we even phoned the lfs suppiler who also confirmed that they had been bread in fresh water and were to live in fresh water. they were in the shop in fresh water. can you help with some quetions

the tank is a 70 ltr but they are on there own except for burts last day he had two sucking loahces added for scavengers. it ph is 7.9...27C ....nitrite and nitrate were next to nothing and no ammona showing up in the test kit i used. its got an undergravel filter with a powerhead for a slightly bigger tank than it is and a external filter that is more than good enough for a bigger tank on its own. it was well used as a tank to house my forver breading afficans before hand so was very mature filter wise. they were feed on crab, prawn for treats and mainly cockle (they like this best) and mussles. one type of food two times a day.

could it be beause there was no salt in the water they died??????
would that take seven weeks to kill them
what other ideas have you on something that would take 5 7 weeks to kill
are topaz and cyclons the same thing.
was thier diet ok or should we have feed them other stuff. we used to put cockles in a crab clawr to make him bite at it for his teeth.
how do you test for copper or zinc in water....maybe copper in too many water changes from pipe work all be it this is a very new house?????
would chlorine from the water changes kill maybe and would it take that long.????

if anyone can threw some light on this we would be greatfull as we want to stick with them but dont want to keep killing them.

one thing i have read on hear is about the black belly thing. our first one always had a black belly. our second one too but late at night or when he was showing off to us at the tank front he would go completly white underneith his belly. is this normall or should it be white all the time only going black when eating.

sorry for all the questions but im at a loss and i have been keeping fish for 18 years or so but these have got me stumped. not bad for a first post eh??? im sure all my others will be much shorter.

thanks for anyhelp we get in advance
jason and tina.

Just a few answers. Yes, chlorine from the water changes can kill them. I don't believe lack of salt would kill them in 7 weeks or less since they had been in FW before that so it shouldn't have been any shock to their system. Color changes in the belly are normal much of the time but sometimes can indicate an illness.

Did you cycle the tank before you added them and, if so, how did you cycle it? Do you know what the ammonia and nitrite levels were?

bike doctoRR wrote:its got an undergravel filter with a powerhead for a slightly bigger tank than it is and a external filter that is more than good enough for a bigger tank on its own. it was well used as a tank to house my forver breading afficans before hand so was very mature filter wise.

Some people may disagree with me on this, but I would throw out that undergravel filter. especially if you have an external filter rated for a larger tank (is it a HOB, or cannister?)

I had an undergravel filter on my first aquarium (~16 years ago). While they can work pretty well, they suck debris under the plastic plates where you can't get with a gravel vac. If it gets bad enough under there, you can end up with toxic water. I never had that problem cause I was told to break the whole thing down and clean under the plates every 6 months (which I did, and it was pretty bad under there after 6 months). I've read other people's similar experiences with undergravel filters, and would just stay away from them at this point.

Your puffers were not "bread" by any commercial breeders, as these puffers haven't been spawned successfully in captivity. Please tell us about your cycling process.

Sorry for your losses, it sounds like you really love your puffers.

right to answer every one in one swoop.

ammonia is not showing any in the test kits i have. ie tablet shake then wait then compare to sheet.

nor is nitrite

nitrate is around 30 but so is my tap water so not alot i can do about it.

yeah there seams to be two trains of thought on under gravel filters. i belive in them as long as they are hovered on a requlaur. as my levels show they do work well as a bio filter. plus with just one fish in there and two loaches and with any left over food being taken out within half an hour of feeding they are not excatly streched on work load. i have had 50 + 1"+ fry in there no probs which got sold to local fish store with no probs for ages. the tank had fish in it for a long time before a good gravel hover all tuffa rock taken out and bog wood and plants put in and a good water change. then the puffers went in so the filtes were well mature. now i know that bog wood lowers ph but im blessed with ph 8 water supply so the water changes keep it good. im thinking it was copper fromt the pipes but how do you test for it.

puffer punk i was just going by what i was told at local fish store. i was there when he phoned them....but i dont know if anyone was even on the other end of the line do i really but it did looked convincing. the supplyer just confirmed they were from a fresh water supply and to keep them in fresh water. so thats what i did. thanks for help everyone anymore ideas