The Puffer Forum

Hi,
This morning when i turned on my F8s tank light, i noticed his color was a little faded, and he was flicking and scratching against various surfaces( slate caves, gravel), I wasnt sure, does this mean hes getting ick? i put 2 tbl spoons of doc well fishes aquarium salt in the tank( i havent bought marine salt yet), and i came back 5 mins later and his color was back to normal.
Can anyone tell me whats going on?

-John

Did he or she do this just once? My fig 8 would "scratch" against rocks once in a while. BUT make sure he does not do it often...once in a while for me is maybe once every 2 months.

Check ur parameters...see if you can see any physical ext. parasite...probably too small but u never know.

Go for water change first and then observe.

js

Yes,
he scratched several times.
The only physical signs that i notice are quite a few EXTREMELY tiny white dots covering him, they are so tiny, i cant tell whetther they are white or green. i cant even see the dots without my face almost pressed against the glass, and the F8 holds still. so ithink the dots might be normal.

It is standard for puffers colors and markings to fade while they are asleep, but they should come back as the fish wakes up and becomes active. This is normal and expected, no cause of concern. The fish will do better long term with a controlled light cycle, so adding a timer for lights to go and off will allow the fish to learn the normal day-night cycle, even if it does not match the sun but suits your needs.

You should be using marine mix and a hydrometer to measure the specific gravity, but you do know that. Aquarium salt does nothing for buffering the water up to the pH and hardness levels these prefer, it only boosts the TDS a bit.

What is the temperature, pH/KH/GH of the tank? Are ammonia and nitrites both undetectable? What is the nitrate titer?

flashing and scratching can also be due to irritation from ammonia, nitrate, nitrite levels. i've never experienced this with puffers, i'm still new, but i did run into it with some of my cichlids when i got lazy on water changes. i'll leave the advice to the experts, but just thought i'd throw that out there for what its worth

I agree, thedude. That is why I asked. Irritability, especially skin irritation without obvious spots or lesions, is classic water problems symptoms.

He is still doing fine, except for the scratching. Im not sure about the water parameters, ill have to go to the LFS to get it tested.
Normally its ph 8.2, and hardness is off the charts, and nitrite, amonia 0, and nitrate 10 ppm. I think i can get the water tested tommorow.

-John

The Fisherman wrote:The only physical signs that i notice are quite a few EXTREMELY tiny white dots covering him, they are so tiny, i cant tell whetther they are white or green. i cant even see the dots without my face almost pressed against the glass, and the F8 holds still.

The "dots" are, most likely, his spines.

F&F is correct, F-8s are one of the pufers in which it pretty easy to see the dermal spines while they are retracted. Sometimes they even show up well in photos:

http://www.thepufferforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=273

Scroll down to picture #2 - the whitish spots are spines, retracted into the skin. Ditto on picture #9 of a GSP.

The easiest way to differentiate betwwen ich spots and spikes is that ich is in random clusters, whereas spikes have a regular pattern and - as it were - rationale to their distribution.
Pami.

The giveaway for me is that spines are normally retracted below the surface of the skin, whereas Ich appears as white bumps, raised from the surface of the skin. Also, spines do not move or increase in number, while Ich will do both if left untreated.

Flashing/scratching can also be a sign of gill flukes. Rapid gilling, clamped/motionless pectoral fins, or motionless gill flaps on one or both gills is another indicator. A thin trail of mucous from the affected gills is another clear indicator.

Just some things to look out for.

I've seen one of my two F8s flashing once or twice every month. When I first bought him he did it much more often (I’d witness it a few times a day) and I tried medications from Melefix to Clout to try and clear the behavior, but none have really had that much effect.

Since he came from a store which kept him in fresh water (Petco calls it "brackish", although there's no detectable SG at all) and the rate he flashes has decreased greatly over the first couple months I've had him (I've had the fish since February), I'm beginning to think the discomfort resulting in the flashing is tissue damage in the gills caused by being kept in such a low SG for a period of time. Since he's been in the proper SG for a few months, the tissue damage is healing and causing him less discomfort overall.

Hes still flashing, and im getting the water tested later tonight.
What would i do, if it was gill flukes?

They should be killed off once you add the correct type of marine mix at the correct specific gravity (1.004-1.008).

You're going to need to buy a hydrometer if you want to keep a brackish fish healthy. Do yourself and the fish a big favor and spend $15 on one. Make sure it has a range wide enough to read below 1.004 (the Instand Ocean brand hydrometer can) as most can't read below 1.020.

I got the water tested at my LFS, and all were good, except nitrates were at 40 ppm. turns out the nitra-zorb wasnt doing anything. I wish i never bought the darn thing.
Ill have to buy RO water from my LFS.