The Puffer Forum

Hi folks.

I sure missed checking in for a while! I finally finished moving to my new condo and got my internet connected again.

The past few days in fish world have been kind of stressful again.

Before that, thanks for the suggestions regarding books. I subscribe to TFH now (great mag - I was very surprised!).

Here's what I got, and I'd love some suggestions.

My Betta had fin rot for a while - I treated that and he seemed to get over it - all the white in his fins went back to the electric blue that they were when I got him. However, I missed one water change (I do weekly 90% changes) and found the Ammonia level to be at 1.5 mg/l two days ago. So I did an extra 90% water change. The pH, Nitrate and Nitrite levels are now all in check, but the poor guy is lethargic. He just sits on the bottom of the tank unless I tap the glass, in which case he will swim one or two laps and then settle on the bottom again.

I've had temperature fluctuations (I have no AC here yet) from 27 to 31 degrees. I also fed him blood worms for the first time recently (he was on only flake food for quite a while - with occasional pellet food).

I checked his body for ich or other discolorations, but nothing shows up clear. HOWEVER, his whole body is no longer blue - it has turned a light greyish colour and he is quite transparent now. I can not clearly see his internal organs, but the shadow is definitely visible. He also seems a bit "fat" to me. I only feed him once every two days, albeit a little chaotically.

Any ideas?

I'm pretty surprised you had ammonia levels after missing one water change, do you still have snails in his tank contributing to the bioload? If you do I would lose the snails except maybe one olive nerite (won't reproduce).

Sorry I can't offer more advice, have you checked betta forums? Any idea on the age of your fish? I know as my bettas aged they tended to get lose color and activity.

Good Luck!

As far as I can tell, there are ZERO snails in the tank. I removed about 5 of them about 2 months ago, and though I see some shells, they are dormant, so I assume they are simply debris at this point (kind of sad, in a way)

NO idea about the age of this guy. I got him just a couple of months ago, and after the work with fin rot, he seemed fine.

I will hit the Betta forums as you suggested, but the advice here has always been much better, frankly.

And, yes, I was shocked at the ammonia levels. The weekly 90% seemed to be fine, so when I missed one, I didn't think anything of it, especially given the strength of Bettas.

Thanks for the reply. I guess I got some more digging to do...

-helium

When you do water changes, do you vaccuum the gravel as well?

Are there still plants in there? Are they healthy, or are some of them decaying? how bout the roots?

A large spike in ammonia like that says to me that the tank isn't fully cycled and the 90% water changes may just be masking it.

The betta may be old and on his way out. The average lifespan is about 2 years in captivity I think, with some people reporting up to 5 with excellent conditions and healthy specimens from a very young age.

My oldest betta lived to 6 1/2.
He was never in an uncycled tank in my care, and was fed a high quality varied diet from day one, with 50's weekly. I personally think my liquid rock water had a lot to do with his health/longevity as well.
I am also suprised to be seeing ammonia in that tank. What's the filtration like on his tank?

I'm starting to see some possible causes now - thanks for the help.

I had two plants literally dissintegrate over the past month which in the last week died off incredibly fast. I pulled the roots and got rid of them right before my last water change. I obviously still haven't perfected the plants aspect of this hobby.

Vacuum the gravel? I guess I don't quite know HOW to do this. I have read about it, but ever time I get my water pump near the gravel when I am doing water changes the gravel all gets sucked up and stoppes the water from exiting (I hope that makes sense), so I do my best to skim the surface to get the bio waste off the surface. I am guessing this isn't enough. However, I've never had a problem with an ammonia spike before. I just checked the level again after 2 days and it is at 0.

I do believe the tank is cycled. This is the second fish to be in it (first was a puffer who died VERY quickly because it wasn't cycled and I didn't know what I was doing at all). But I have had the tank running for about six months now with water changes and chemical checks and the Betta was doing GREAT until about 5 days ago.

Filtration is one corner filter. The tank is 13 liters. The filter has two removable sponge-type media, one of which I have changed in the past 6 months completely, but I have never removed all of the "good stuff" from the filter media.

and though I see some shells, they are dormant, so I assume they are simply debris at this point [...]

I had two plants literally dissintegrate over the past month which in the last week died off incredibly fast. I pulled the roots and got rid of them right before my last water change.

Right there is your ammonia problem. Between dead snails, or 'dormant shells' and rotting plants, thats the water issues.

Vacuum the gravel?

Heres another contributor to your ammonia. LOADS and LOADS of literally crap and waste sits in the gravel. What I do in my gravel tanks, turn filter off, stir up gravel with a little aggression, to flip all the stuff into the water, so when you suck/scoop it out, you get it.

But a gravel vac really helps. I'm going to assume you know what it is, but in case you don't (which is ok too) here it is:

http://www.firsttankguide.net/siphon.php <--- just a Google site

But yea, basically its like a wider tube on your siphon that you shove down into the gravel and it sucks up the lighter material (poo) while quickly dropping the heavier (rock)

Thanks a ton! I read another article on water changes again (the one I had used as my guide originally) and it said basically the same thing the link you provided did. I just finished doing another 90% water change AND did my best to vacuum the gravel. I do have a siphon, so that is how I did it. And I was surprised at just how dirty the removed water was! Obviously this was a big issue! I'm just surprised at how fast the ammonia levels rose. But, I'm still in the learning process here, so this experience knocks my confidence up one more small notch.

Now I just gotta hope that the Betta will get better. I believe I will continue to do large water changes over the next few days and continue to try and clean the gravel up more.

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'm all ears!

Thanks again for the information!
-helium

Dude, yea, he's fine. I used to forget to change mine everyonce in a while, but he's in his own, alone 10 gallon fully cycled tank.... If your filter is cycled, and your gravel, then you should be fine. That is, lol, unless you got a LOT of stuff in the gravel.

But honestly, your betta will be fine. They are really tough fish. Next to oscars, bettas are unbreakable.

And acctually I was suprised to learn, even though they do live in puddles in the wild n stuff, they really do seem to appreciate the extra space.

I think you're on the right track steve. Getting the mulm out of the gravel will greatly reduce the bioload of your tank.

Plants can be very tricky for a beginner. More often than not they seem to die off due to inappropriate conditions unbeknownst to the owner. I'd recommend going with some silk or plastic plants and decor for now until you've got a good handle on the situation. Then you can research some plants that suit your tank environment.

I hope the betta perks up. Prestine water conditions and a good varied diet is pretty much all you can do.

Good advice regarding plants. I have lost a number of them. The original "bad" decision to go with a planted tank was my fiance's idea who just basically said "no plastic! we need real plants!" - mistake.

However, with my next tank, I plan to go with a planted environment, so the need exists for me to study this. I just have to do more reading on the basics. As it is right now, there is only one plant left in my 13 liter tank, but it is pretty smally and very hearty.

The betta is still not doing well. He spends the majority of his time doing what I can only describe as head stands - sitting on the bottom with his nose to the gravel. But the water is pristine right now and, after another water change tomorrow with gravel vacuum I think the tank will be immaculate. The chemical levels are all in check and the temp is a nice contant 28.

I mostly wonder if his color will go back, or if I damaged him internally due to high ammonia levels.

Again, thanks for the help. I hope all my mistakes help other people as well!

-helium

I'm also watching him swim around now and he displays some of the same behaviour as when my first fish (poor puffer) seemed drunk. He's bumping into things and not putting much energy into his swim. The puffer died of ammonia levels.

Is it just going to take time for his body to flush out the poison? How long am I looking at here?

One more question: with the corner filter I have (and I know it's not the best system, but my research tells me that for a tank this small, it shouldn't pose a big problem) - how often should the media be actually CHANGED. I swish it around in the discarded tank water to remove any debris, but I never "clean it" and (as I think I said before) have only changed ONE of the two cartriges once thus far. Any suggestions given the tank size and media type?

Thanks again,
-helium

ok, never change both cartridges at the same time. This is a big no-no. And to be honest, you never need to change any of them if you didn't wanna. The only thing carbon does to water is clears it up, keeping it look clean, and removes odor. Other than that, the filter media simply acts as a home for bacteria. But my advice to you, if you wanna change the things, do it about every other month, one at a time, never both. That way one will always be good. Carbon is only affective for about a month. After that, its just there to act as a "bacteria filter".

it's not carbon. It's the white spongy stuff. (I assume that is not carbon - carbon is black, right? - sorry, silly newbie questions, but I have no mentor here to SHOW me these things)

I would never change both at the same time. That's one thing that I learned straight on - the stuff in there is important.

But the white bits are all quite brown and seem to be holding a good amount of bacteria.

Holy batman.

Now he's swimming in what I could only describe as fighter plane spirals. He just dive-bombed into the gravel full speed. This cannot be good.