What kind of puffer is this?

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Pufferpunk
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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Pufferpunk » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:46 pm

It wouldn't hurt to just forgo the heater.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Lionheart
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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Lionheart » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:21 pm

So, I have been trying to do more research on this. Two opposing possibilities are emerging for water temp:

1. Takifugu obscurus is on a number of sites, including http://www.wetwebmedia.com/newpuffsneale.htm, classified as a sub-tropical species. Its generically closest relative is Takifugu rubripes (https://www.scienceopen.com/document/re ... 19e969439d), which is also classified as a sub-tropical species. As such, sub-tropical habitat temps should be like we are seeing for Takifugu ocellatus, with water temps between 64-72 F.

2. Two research papers on Takifugu obscurus & Takifugu rubripes (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... 06.00002.x, https://link.springer.com/article/10.11 ... 016-0024-x) actually show that the best growth for both of these species is at a water temp of around 77F. Tests were conducted with fish for 8 weeks at temps at 59F, 68F, 77F, and 86F. There is a large different in growth between 68F and 77F, suggesting warmer temps around 77F are better than cooler temps for growth. There was also a slight increase in mortality rates for fish kept at 68F, but no loss of fish kept at 77F. This test was done with juveniles being fed one food pellet three times a day. They do note, however, that lower temps might be better for adults.

So, I am torn here. There is very little data online from hobbyists keeping this species over the long term. So, I either go with habitat or lab research. Luckily, wetweb lists Takifugu obscurus as being a hardier species than Takifugu ocellatus. Currently, Io is 3.5"-4" long, in a 55g at 74F, has a good appetite and is active. Thoughts?

(I'll tackle salinity next, as research and field study show that Takifugu obscurus adults live in the sea, but research suggests higher survival rates at lower-end brackish waters. Figures. I'll start a thread in Giant Puffer Species documenting this journey for other to learn from. He's in FW now for a week or so while he settles in before I slowly start to raise salinity.)

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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Corvus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:31 am

If current research suggests lower mortality for 77F in juveniles, I'd personally start at 74-75F and go lower with growth. For salinity I'd stark with brackish and raise the salinity to marine with growth.
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a fish a man, and he'll eat for weeks.

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Pufferpunk
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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Pufferpunk » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:57 am

There is very little data online from hobbyists keeping this species over the long term.
Probably because it is a food item, more often than a pet?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"

Lionheart
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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Lionheart » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:25 am

Pufferpunk wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:57 am
There is very little data online from hobbyists keeping this species over the long term.
Probably because it is a food item, more often than a pet?
Yeah, I would agree with this. The research is all about how to grow them for food, so... maybe people are sick of eating puffers in China :-)

Another question, let's say I got this guy to max size of 20cm/16", what size tank & filtration do you think this would be assuming he is a singleton? And, he is currently in a standard 55g long with 2 AC 70's for total a of 600 gph turnover, how long can I keep him in this tank?

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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Lionheart » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:25 am

Corvus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:31 am
If current research suggests lower mortality for 77F in juveniles, I'd personally start at 74-75F and go lower with growth. For salinity I'd stark with brackish and raise the salinity to marine with growth.
Yup, this was my thinking as well.

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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Lionheart » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:57 am

Regarding teeth, again, I am not sure he has any :-)

I dropped a home-grown 1cm ramshorn in his tank. He tried quite a few times, but could not break the shell. I then fished it out and gave it to my Figure 8's, who demolished it in seconds. So far, he is eating frozen shrimp (no shell, no head/tail, popcorn-style you buy in the freezer section) and frozen krill (although I don't think he liked krill as much as the shrimp). Both were dethawed in tank water + vitamins.

Are there any puffer species that do not have teeth?

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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Corvus » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:08 am

No. If I remember correct it was T. obscurus, where it was determined that puffers and humans have the same genes responsible for teeth.
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a fish a man, and he'll eat for weeks.

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Pufferpunk
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Pufferpunk » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:37 pm

A toothless puffer???
I'd go with at least a 120g or 125g tank. Possibly with a sump. If doing SW, then 1 1/2-2lbs live rock/gal & protein skimmer with lots of flow.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"

Lionheart
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Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Lionheart » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:50 am

Not kidding, I don't think he has teeth. I put an even smaller snail in his tank this morning. Could not break the shell. You could tell it was pissing him off, he kept going at, but nope...

Could his teeth have been damaged? If so, do they grow back? Any chance breeders (raising them for food) could have removed them, or perhaps bred them out?

I would offer him my finger to double check, but I don't want to teach him it's ok to bite me haha.

User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 31302
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: What kind of puffer is this?

Post by Pufferpunk » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:19 pm

Try feeding live earthworms. I get them from Walmart.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"

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