F8 acting very strange

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cds333
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F8 acting very strange

Post by cds333 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:04 am

8/13
Brought home a baby GSP and a baby F8, at which time they went into a 5.5 gallon aquarium at 7.0 pH. Used a HOB filter from an established 10g FW tank. Used a few tablespoons of neutral regulator along with a few tsp equilibrium and Fluval Cycle.

8/17
F8 gets ich, raised the temp to 83 and raised the salinity to 1.002 with instant ocean; dosed pimafix/melafix

8/20
ich gone, has not come back

8/23
Added a sponge filter to supplement the HOB
Lower temp to 78-80F

9/18
Moved to a 20 gal, raised salinity to ~1.003 - 1.004 and pH to ~7.2 via alkaline regulator. Added more Cycle.

9/21
Added an aquaclear 30 powerhead

9/25
Added aquaclear powerhead addon filter

10/2
Current parameters:
7.2 pH
78 F
1.0035 salinity
<=0.25 NH
0.0 NO2
10ppm NO3

These water parameters have been constant for weeks. I don't know the exact ammonia level because I don't have a brackish test kit, but according to the API kit the ammonia is at 0 for marine and 0.25 for fresh, so actual level is somewhere in between.

Recently did a PWC of about 5 gallons a week or so ago, and another 5 gallons yesterday. Sequestered the F8 back into 5 gallon as a hospital tank.

Diet consisted of 1x freeze dried krill or shrimp (alternated) per puffer per day.

Behaviour-

Puffy is acting very strange, almost as if he were blind (although he can still see me and will be startled if I approach him quickly with a large object in my hand) but he swims aimlessly at the glass and then bumps into it and his tail raises into the air like when a car crashes into a wall. He also would collide with the plants before I removed them, sometimes almost jabbing himself in the eye. He floats at odd angles, sometimes almost vertical, and sometimes lets himself be carried by the current. Other times he almost swims normally, but he has lost his curiosity about his environment and is pretty much a zombie. This started two days ago, but he also has not eaten in 3 days. He no longer cares when his tankmate aggros on him, he just sits there and ignores him. He doesnt care when I pick him up, while usually he would swim away with great fervor. He will randomly get startled as he drifts past the airstone and also I came home today to him puffed up! I tried to burp him but I dont think it worked; he went back to normal (relatively speaking) after a few minutes but I can only surmise that he got startled by the airstone again or perhaps drifted into the heater and that caused him to inflate.

I have no idea what went wrong because just a few days ago he was fine and he would come up to the glass whenever I walked by to beg for food. His tankmate is still acting normal and eating just fine.

Is it possible that he had a stroke and is now permanently retarded?

The only thing I can think of is that I did not pre-soak their food, as I just read about that today. Also possible that I could have done a few more water changes, but the entire tank has only been up a few weeks, shouldn't be long enough to get toxic (and not show up on test kit).

Here is a video of him. Of course I didnt capture any of the really weird things like when he was floating with the current like a log, puffed up, or when he was standing still almost vertical.

https://youtu.be/xnCvpvik3eQ


What can I do to help him??? I really dont want him to die.

Thanks!
Last edited by cds333 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by Pufferpunk » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:27 pm

A tank can become toxic quickly, if not cycled properly. STOP WASTING YOUR $$$ ON CYCLE!!! It is nothing more than DEAD bacteria in a bottle--total waste of $$$. This is like adding more waste to your tank. You would have been fine just moving over your filter from the other tank.

Your puffer is showing classic symptoms of ammonia/nitrite poisoning. Ammonia can permanently burn eyes/gills/skin. What test kits are you using?

What size tank is your F8 & GSP in? Are they separated? I do not recommend keeping these 2 species together. Your GSP is going to need a much bigger tank & higher SG. The 20g would be good for the F8. What tank mates?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by Iliveinazoo » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:54 pm

At SG1.003 you would need to refer to the fresh water kit.

It sounds like the Fluval Cycle hasn’t worked and it does look like ammonia poisoning and unfortunately it may be too late. You could try large water changes and then add Tetra Safestart in the hope that he isn’t too far gone. The Safestart may be too late for your F8 but it may just save your GSP.

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by cds333 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:02 pm

Thank you for the advice. This is very frustrating as I have been told the same thing about tss in the past. I will get a bottle of it, I assume that mixing different kinds of bacteria additives is not a problem? (I got some dr tims yesterday, the guy at the LFS also recommended increasing the salt content)

Just the two for now, I am planning on separating them when they get older, I know the gsp needs higher salt. Now they were in a 20L, and I gave them both a cave to hide in. They would never fight, but the gsp would chase the f8 away occasionally into a corner, but never any fin damage or biting. I really only wanted the f8 but I could not just leave the other one to die at Walmart.

I am using api test kit. Nitrite at 0 and nitrate acceptable levels.

After I posted originally he started acting different, darting around the tank constantly as if someone were banging on the glass every few min. He has since quieted down.

As of today he has stopped acting strange- bumping into things, swimming erratically, floating at an angle, etc. he once again is moving his eyes like normal and reacts quickly when I approach him, and he has started to explore his hospital tank a bit but still hangs out in the corner mostly. Idk if it means anything but it is the same corner he would stay in in the other tank.

Only thing now is that he will not eat. The shrimp has been sitting there untouched for 12 hours.

How long does it take for the condition to improve if it will?

Tyvm!

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by Pufferpunk » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:44 pm

Please stop listening to the LFS. Stop adding salt. Dr Tim's is fine to use. He invented Bio-Spira. Add it directly to your filter after a large WC. Refrain from doing another WC for 48 hours.
Remove uneaten food after 10 minutes. Use Prime to condition.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by cds333 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:42 am

I assume you mean stop adding salt until he is better? I will not add any; I didn't really think that would be the cause anyway.

How long do they normally take until they will start eating again?

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by Pufferpunk » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:14 am

There really is no way to tell. Fish that don't feel well,don't eat. You could try tempting him with live worms or try soaking his favorite foods in crushed garlic clove. Just make sure you remove uneaten foods after a short period of time.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by cds333 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:11 pm

Finally something to report at least, after almost two weeks of not eating, I noticed some white stuff hanging out if his anal opening... Not "stringy" really but definitely not hard yellow like their normal droppings. It was almost fluffy, but also shiny white, almost mucousal in appearance.

Microscopic analysis of this anal substance revealed what appeared to contain a cellular structure.

Odd thing is that he has not eaten so where is this stuff coming from? Other than a bloodworm which I left in his tank almost 2 days ago I have been removing his food after he refuses to eat. I think I found the bloodwork starting to decompose but when I tried to remove it from the tank it just disintegrated.

So no food for two weeks why is he crapping now?

I did start treating the tank with MetroPlex (metronidazole) about 5 days ago.

Thanks!

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C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by Pufferpunk » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:39 am

There is a very small chance the fish may get some f that med into it's system, since FW fish do not drink water.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by cds333 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:42 am

He has resumed eating!!! Finally took a few bites of a shrimp just now! I am so happy; I thought I was going to have to tube feed him.

I guess the medicine worked. I had no idea parasites could affect his coordination so much.

I know starving humans can die from eating a large portion of food, are fish the same? Should I let him eat as much as he can or ration it?

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Re: F8 acting very strange

Post by Iliveinazoo » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:23 pm

Great news!
FIsh can suffer with taking in oxygen if they eat too much, it usually results in them resting and panting heavily but I bet that it’s not beyond the reaches of probability that they could get themselves into trouble if the water gets real warm in the summer months and it can’t hold as much oxygen as it usually does in their natural range.

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