The Puffer Forum

First of all, thank you for reading my long post. It really means a lot to me if people take my situation seriously.

For the past few months, I have ameba-looking parasites. At the time of discovery, which was first discovered in the filter, they did not seem to pose any danger to my fish as my fish were acting normal. Of course, I attempted to remove the ameba's, but they found themselves in the gravel bed. Probably because they were already in the gravel or some escaped when I took the filter off the tank. Regardless, they are in my tank to stay. At first I considered it to be ich in the egg stage, however, after doing some research on the internet and the amount of time that past by, my suspicion was disproven - thankfully. But I am still left with the question of what these ameba's are. The only reason why I came to The Puffer Forum as one of my fish is acting unusual.


1) Water parameters:
pH 7.6 - This is ordinary for my tank
Ammonia 1.0 ppm - I rarely take this measurement, so I do not know if this is ordinary*
Nitrite 0 ppm - I rarely take this measurement, so I do not know if this is ordinary*
Nitrates 80 to160 ppm rang - This is ordinary for my tank**
salinity 1.016 GS (Brackish)- This is ordinary for my tank
Temp. 82F - This is ordinary for my tank
Kh 8 - This is ordinary for my tank

*I never took these measurement as my tank is a fully established tank, so the nutrient cycle is on point. I mainly just took the Nitrate measurement as its at the end of the nutrient cycle
** I know that the optimum rang for Nitrates is 0 ppm, but for years my aquarium water has always been in the 40 to 140 ppm rang. I've tried to lower it, but nothing has seemed to work in the past, so I just left it. Also, both of my fish do not seem to be affected by high levels of Nitrates. But now, since one of my fish seems sick, the high nitrates probably does not help.

2) Tank size and list of ALL inhabitants.
29 gallon with one Green Spotted Puffer Fish (4" long - Beginning of mid life span)(This fish is the one that appears to be sick) and one Archer Fish (6")

3) Feeding, water change schedule and list of all products used or added to my tank
Archer gets 4-6 live crickets every other day. Puffer gets one cube(0.75" x 0.75" x 0.75") of bloodworms every other day. Both get fed at the same time in the morning. Both get krill in the evening every so often (2-3 times a week). Past few days, my puffer has not eaten and is looking a bit more thin than usual. Puffer also does not look like his teeth have grown too long and shut his mouth, which would explain his slight thinner body. Archer is thin, but looks usual to me.
Products used: Freeze Dried Krill (San Francisco Bay Brand), Fish Gum Drops Floating Fish Food Bloodworms (San Francisco Bay Brand), Instant Ocean Sea Salt (Instant Ocean), Fluval Carbon 100g bags (Fluval), AquaSafe Plus dechlorinizer (Tetra)

4) What changes have I made in the tank in the last week or so.
When I first noticed my puffer acting unusual, I though that the water did not have enough oxygen due to the water temperature being high, so I placed an air stone in my aquarium, bust discontinued after two days as my puffer did not get better. Other than that, there has been no changes over the last week.

5) How long has my aquarium been set up, and how did I cycle it?
My tank has been set up at least four years and was cycled for at least a month with no fish.

6) What I have done before I discovered the ameba's?
I started to make a transition to make my plain and boring tank into a tank with a mangrove. So I purchased some dead coral rocks, bleached them, and was prepping to place them in the tank, but a week before, I did a water change and looked into my filter and discovered the ameba's. I delayed putting the rocks into the tank until I knew that the ameba's were of no real concern - even though I still have my doubts. Now about half the rocks are in the tank. I placed one rock in the tank at a time, every week or two when I did my water change. How I bleach the rocks was by using a 1:9 ration of bleach to water solution (declorinized water), let them sit for a week, took them out, rinsed them, bathed them in fresh water (declorinized), rinsed again, and lay them out to dry for a week. After, they did not smell like bleach.

Also, my heater failed, making the tank a cold 76F for a good week. But I replaced it with a new, but that neater seems to be malfunctioning. So a placed a spare heater to keep the water at a 82F.

Thank you for your help and input,
Fig

1) Tank is overstocked. 30g MINIMUM for a single puffer. I would upgrade to a 55g, ASAP.
2) ANY ammonia is toxic. Nitrate should always be <20. This could be due to overfeeding, overstocking or under-cleaning. What is your water change schedule & are you cleaning under substrate, even under all rocks/decor?
3) I feel you are feeding improperly.

Please read: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... d-puffers/
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... r-puffers/

Welcome!

Like Pufferpunk said, any ammonia is bad and can easily cause changes in your fish's behavior. Do a couple water changes and you'll be fine.

What I'm more worried about are the parasites. It's impossible for them to be amoeba, since those are single-celled and not visible to the naked eye. Could you send a picture of them?

My guess is probably planaria, from my above suggestions.

Pictures of parasites.

Pufferpunk:

1) The problem with upgrading to a larger tank is that my floor has a weight limit of 50lbs per square foot. Any larger than a 30 gallon (which is already at 250lbs - the limit the floor can hold given the foot print of the tank) will warp my floor and cause even bigger problem than the one I am facing now. I have came up with tree solutions: one, I can have a refugium or large canister filter (which will probably be home made from two 5 gallon buckets) to add volume to my water and spread the massive weight of water over a larger foot print. Two, I can create a customized tank that will spread out the weight over a larger foot print, but that will significantly lower the depth of the tank - I think 9.6 inches in depth, and lower if I put rocks and substrate in. Or three, I get another 29 gallon tank for my puffer only. Even though im leaning towards a combination of options one and two, I an open up to your advice. What do you think? Any other options?

2)"ANY ammonia is toxic. Nitrate should always be <20." Understood. I do 10% water changes every other week and I vacuum out the gravel when I do, except I do not vacuum under the rocks.

3)I could be feeding improperly. You tell me. Since my puffer is 4 inches, I feed him every other day with blood worms. One bloodworm cube is taken from the freezer and placed in a cup of aquarium water until it is completely melted and the individual bloodworms are freely moving. Then I pour everything inside the tank. Then every so often a week, I put freeze dried krill on top of the water without soaking them. The only improper feeding routine that I am lacking is shelled food, such as snails, ghost shrimp, and crayfish. Otherwise, please advice me of my misdoings.

Thanks for your critical feed back,
Fig

Pufferpunk wrote:
1) Tank is overstocked. 30g MINIMUM for a single puffer. I would upgrade to a 55g, ASAP.
2) ANY ammonia is toxic. Nitrate should always be <20. This could be due to overfeeding, overstocking or under-cleaning. What is your water change schedule & are you cleaning under substrate, even under all rocks/decor?
3) I feel you are feeding improperly.

Please read: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... d-puffers/
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... r-puffers/

pufferjk:

I called them ameba's as they were perfectly round and had a nucleus-thing inn the middle. Pictures were sent at your request.
Also I will do water changes every other day now until a solution is found and implemented successfully.

Thanks a lot,
Fig

pufferjw wrote:Welcome!

Like Pufferpunk said, any ammonia is bad and can easily cause changes in your fish's behavior. Do a couple water changes and you'll be fine.

What I'm more worried about are the parasites. It's impossible for them to be amoeba, since those are single-celled and not visible to the naked eye. Could you send a picture of them?

pufferpunk:

Its not planaria. Unless planaria can be an internal paracite, I have seen no worm like creatures inhabiting this tank; thus, it is not planaria.

Fig

Pufferpunk wrote:My guess is probably planaria, from my above suggestions.

I do 10% water changes every other week and I vacuum out the gravel when I do, except I do not vacuum under the rocks.

Most of us here, do 50% weekly & clean under ALL decor.

Then I pour everything inside the tank.

You are adding unnecessary nitrate (waste) to your tank, by not straining that thru a brine shrimp net. Krill is not the best diet & by making the puffer eat it off the top of the water, it can possibly ingest air.
Also, your fish need a varied diet of crunchy foods.
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... r-puffers/

As far as those photos, I'd need a clear macro shot of the "offenders".

As I think about it, it may not be a parasite at all, but some type of bacteria that is feeding off the ammonia or nitrates in my tank.

Fig

"Most of us here, do 50% weekly & clean under ALL decor."
-I do not want to offend your judgment, but 50% is a dramatic water change. Wont that put my fish in a position of possible shock? And clean under all décor - got it.

"You are adding unnecessary nitrate (waste) to your tank, by not straining that thru a brine shrimp net. Krill is not the best diet & by making the puffer eat it off the top of the water, it can possibly ingest air.
Also, your fish need a varied diet of crunchy foods."
-Understood.

Fig

Discus breeders do 200% DAILY WC, so their tank matches their tap water. If you do 50% regularly, so will yours.

well Fig, most of your questions have been answered
1) your tank is not cycled. ammonia is toxic. high levels of Nitrates are toxic. and given those levels, it's hard for me to think that your Nitrite level is "zero"
you need to get the water parameters to normal levels, no matter what it takes to do so (water changes, vaccuming, cleaning, additional filtration, reduce stock)
anything you bleached is suspect, get rid of all of it
treating bleached items with Seachems' "Prime" might be acceptable, but even then, there's no way to be sure that even that is sufficient
it's not a chance I'd be willing to take, expecially in light of all the other problems you have going on in your tank
2) the 82 degrees seems excessively high, mid 70s seems more reasonable
3) there's too much of the wrong food going into the tank
re-homing the Archer will help immensely, and the puffer needs a more appropriate diet
4) not all organisms are parasites. parasites are organisms that take their nourishment from the host, without contributing anything to the host (leeches, fleas, flukes, ich, anchor worms, etc)
they usually do this to the detriment of the health of the host
5) the more polluted & substandard the water quality is, the more the opportunity there is for these organisms to gain a "foothold" and multiply. good examples of these are planaria and Malaysian
Trumpet Snails

from your profile:

"I like challenges and I see this hobby as a challenge, so I want to master this challenge."

..........now's the time to step up to it

eieio:

"..........now's the time to step up to it "

Ill do it!

Fig

Fig wrote:eieio:

"..........now's the time to step up to it "

Ill do it!

Fig

glad to hear it!
let us know how it's coming along, or if you need any more help
and remember, clean quality water is the key to all of this
whatever you need to do to achieve that is the main goal
most everything will fall into line beyond that