The Puffer Forum

Hello Everyone,

Thank you so much for giving a moment of your time to help my Brown Puffer Fish, Audi.

So, first things first:

Water Parameters:
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrates: 0
Salinity: N/A

Tank Info:
Size: 20 Gallon Tall
Filtration: Marineland Penguin 200 (rated for up to 50 gallons)
Inhabitants: One Brown Puffer Fish
Plants: One small Anubias plant, and a few even smaller floating Anubias Nana plants.

Feeding: Audi is fed one cube of beef heart once every other day. Occasionally I will feed Audi blood worms, but she/he prefers the beef heart. Every couple of months I will add some ghost shrimp, and the last time this was done was about three/four months ago.

Water Change Schedule: I do a 20% water change every 7 to 10 days. I do my best to change every week, but sometimes things will come and a change it a few days after the week mark. The last water change was four days ago.

Products Used Recently:
After every water change I use Prime for my water conditioner.
Also, I have recently dosed the fish tank with Melafix for three days straight (stopped doing so yesterday because I ran out) in the hopes of improving Audi's condition. While there was some improvement, I can tell there is more to the situation than I had originally thought.

Aquarium History:
This tank was originally set up back in 2010, and Audi was moved into the tank in 2012. In 2013, the tank was switched from a gravel to a sand substrate.

Now to the Situation:
Approximately one month ago my family came back from a three week long vacation. During that time, our house sitter fed Audi and kept the water in the fish tank filled to a certain level (I was nervous about having the house sitter do water changes, so I did a deep cleaning of the tank before we left. While this may not be ideal, I figured this was the better alternative than risking the house sitter shocking the fish tank by improperly doing a water change.) During the last week of our vacation, the house sitter said that there was a brown algae boom, and upon returning home I could see that this was in fact the case. The first night back I did another deep cleaning of the tank, and removed all the brown algae from the glass and decorations. I believe the algae boom may in part be due to the fact that I set the LED tank lights on a timer for twelve hours a day before we left on vacation. I have since decreased the time from twelve to eight hours a day, and this has greatly reduced the appearance of the algae.

Also, upon returning home I noticed that Audi had lost some weight, but I figured that this may have been due to the stress of having a new person feed him or perhaps that he was not feed as often as I had instructed to do so. Nevertheless, I figured that I would build Audi back to his old size in no time, and within a few weeks of being home I noticed that Audi had practically returned to original pre-vacation size.

Then about two weeks ago, I noticed that Audi was only taking a small bite out of the beef cube and letting the rest rot in his tank (which I would removed immediately once discovered). This continued and I figured in part this may be due to the heat of summer. Then I noticed that Audi was getting out of his cave (which is extremely rare due to his/her lurker behavior), and staying near the surface of the water by the "waterfall" created by the filter's output.

I checked the temperature of the water via a thermometer sticker on the tank's glass about found it to 86 degrees Fahrenheit even though the heater was set to 78 degrees. I unplugged the heater, and have been keeping a close eye on the water temperature since then. I have found that it raises to 82 / 84 degrees during the day, and lowers to 78 / 80 degrees at night (Southern California has been going though a heat wave of late). It was at this time that I dosed the fish tank with Melafix for three consecutive days in the hopes of alleviating Audi's issues.

While I believe the Melafix did provide some comfort, it did not resolve the issue. Audi is still near the surface of the water at times, has a poor appetite, and I have noticed that s/he has started flashing against the aquarium decor. Audi also seems to breathing heavy, but I do not see an issue with his gills. While swimming Audi's tail fin is curled slightly towards the body, and his/her head is lowered at an about 45 degree angle. His/her coloring also changes from dark to very light.

I have looked Audi over the best I can, and the only thing I see is four, almost clear in color, strings hanging from his/her belly. They are very small, only about a millimeter long, and hang down in such a way that it reminds me of a spider web. Also, at the tip of these strings is a sphere the size of a grain of sand, and it very well might be a grain of sand given the tank's sand substrate. However, I can also see white/grey spots on the glass inside the fish tank which have the same spider web "movement" if that makes any sense. I originally brushed this off as the beginning of algae, but now I am not so sure.

I have done some research into this matter, and some of Audi's behavior matches that of a fish suffering from velvet. If this is correct, can Audi be treated with Mardel's Coppersafe? I have some already, so once given the okay I can treat him/her tonight. I have looked over the Coppersafe bottle and booklet, but cannot find the dosing instructions...so if I use it how much and how often. Also, should I remove the plants or decorations before treatment?

I am completely lost in regards to this matter, so any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and if s/he could, Audi would thank you too.

My Best,
J. Gregory

The webbing & sand sounds pretty normal. Could just be dust particles from outside the tank & sand sticking to him. I am much more concerned about your puffer's diet. Do you think he ever came across a cow's heart in the wild? Please read up on a much better diet for your puffer: library/feeding/feeding-your-puffers/
Also: library/feeding/problems-feeding-your-puffer/

My other concern is your 0 nitrate. A balanced system should be showing nitrate. What are you using to test this?

Velvet looks just like that--a full coating of white velvet on their body. This is not what you are describing. A photo would help. Copper is DEADLY to puffers! I'm glad you asked before treating.

Thank you so much for your quick response.

I have read up on the links that you have provided, and have taken some notes to aid me the next time I go shopping at the pet store. In the past, I have tried feeding Audi some brine shrimp and bloodworms, but he refused to touch it and the leftover food only served to foul up the water quality in the tank. Perhaps getting some of the food items under the live category will peak his interest. Once again I thank you for pointing me in the right direction on this matter.

In regards to the nitrate level, that was a typo and should have been listed as 40/80. I say 40/80 because the testing kit I am using, API's Master Freshwater Kit, is difficult to discern (at least for me) if the color of the tube matches the colors indicated for 40 or 80.

Last night, I did another 20% water change, and will do so again tonight in the hopes that it offers Audi some relief. Today I observed Audi still staying close to the surface of the water and swimming with his head down and tail up, and for the first time witnessed him jump out of the water and then dart about the tank. Afterwards, s/he came to rest and the bottom, and I was able to record his change in color and labored breathing. The link to said video can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIy3tr4V2qM

I also took some photos from the video to illustration some of my concerns:



The above shows Audi just after he darted around the tank. Audi's coloring is darker than normal, and at this moment s/he is observed to have labored breathing.


The above shows a slight discoloration on his back, whitish and round in shape, located towards his tail.


Another picture showing the discoloration on his back.


A different angle showing the discoloration.

I hope the above helps in regards to coming up with a diagnoses. I know that something is going on...especially with Audi hovering near the surface of the water and doing a small jump to get out of the water (thankfully I do have a lid on my fish tank), but am not sure if it is bacteria, fungal, or parasite related.

I am sincerely hoping this can be diagnosed because I know that Audi is uncomfortable. Please advise on how to treat...I will get the required medication and rectify this issue.

You need to upload your images at: www.photobucket.com & link them to here.


Nitrate >20 is too high. Up your WC to 50% daily, until you get them <20. Then 50% weekly. A fish trying to jump out usually has uncomfortable water parameters & is looking for healthier water to swim in.

Also, get him in brackish water now! I'm sure this will improve his condition.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19348
library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/

Pufferpunk, thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it!

In regards to the pictures, take two:

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... g.html?o=1

The above shows Audi just after he darted around the tank. Audi's coloring is darker than normal, and at this moment s/he is observed to have labored breathing.


http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... g.html?o=2

The above shows a slight discoloration on his back, whitish and round in shape, located towards his tail.

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... g.html?o=3

Another picture showing the discoloration on his back.

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... sort=3&o=0

A different angle showing the discoloration.

Now for an update: I did a 50% water change tonight as suggested, and will retest the nitrate levels tomorrow night before any additional water changes.

Now in regards to making the tank brackish, I still have a few questions even after reading the linked articles.

On hand I do have a Coralife Deep Six Hydrometer that measures SG from 1.012 to 1.032, and some Instant Ocean Sea Salt.

The Instant Ocean box notes that "1.5l lbs of Instant Ocean is formulated to create 5 gallons of saltwater at a specific gravity of 1.022." It is then suggest to add 1/2 cup per gallon.

However, as suggested in the articles, it is best to raise the SG by 0.002 or less per week, and given that the hydrometer does not measure such miniscule amounts I find myself unsure as to what to do next.

One of the linked articles stated that 1 cup per 5 gallons is required the SG to .005. Given that I have a 20 gallon tank, and only wish to raise the SG to 0.002 I thought of the following solution:

Use 1/2 cup per 5 gallons to raise the SG to 0.0025. Given the size of my tank (20 gallons), I would need to use 2 cups of salt to raise the SG to 0.0025. To error on the side of caution, instead of using 2 cups would it be best to use one and half (1.5) cups to raise the SG to approximately 0.0025?

Before adding 1.5 cups of Instant Ocean salt I wanted to confirm that this amount was appropriate. However, I did start the process by adding 3 tsp (equivalent to 1 tbsp) tonight to the "new" water for the 50% water change. I realize this is a very small amount of salt, but I figured it would be much easier to add more to achieve the correct amount as opposed to over salting the tank thereby causing a potential great deal of harm.

I look forward to your advise on this matter, and thank you once again for your continued help on improving Audi's health situation.

Best Regards,
J. Gregory

I tried posting the following message last night, but for some reason it has yet to show up. Therefore, I am resubmitting it in the hopes that it will go through this time...


Pufferpunk, thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it!

In regards to the pictures, take two:

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... g.html?o=1

The above shows Audi just after he darted around the tank. Audi's coloring is darker than normal, and at this moment s/he is observed to have labored breathing.


http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... g.html?o=2

The above shows a slight discoloration on his back, whitish and round in shape, located towards his tail.

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... g.html?o=3

Another picture showing the discoloration on his back.

http://s4.photobucket.com/user/GoldenFi ... sort=3&o=0

A different angle showing the discoloration.

Now for an update: I did a 50% water change tonight as suggested, and will retest the nitrate levels tomorrow night before any additional water changes.

Now in regards to making the tank brackish, I still have a few questions even after reading the linked articles.

On hand I do have a Coralife Deep Six Hydrometer that measures SG from 1.012 to 1.032, and some Instant Ocean Sea Salt.

The Instant Ocean box notes that "1.5l lbs of Instant Ocean is formulated to create 5 gallons of saltwater at a specific gravity of 1.022." It is then suggest to add 1/2 cup per gallon.

However, as suggested in the articles, it is best to raise the SG by 0.002 or less per week, and given that the hydrometer does not measure such miniscule amounts I find myself unsure as to what to do next.

One of the linked articles stated that 1 cup per 5 gallons is required the SG to .005. Given that I have a 20 gallon tank, and only wish to raise the SG to 0.002 I thought of the following solution:

Use 1/2 cup per 5 gallons to raise the SG to 0.0025. Given the size of my tank (20 gallons), I would need to use 2 cups of salt to raise the SG to 0.0025. To error on the side of caution, instead of using 2 cups would it be best to use one and half (1.5) cups to raise the SG to approximately 0.0025?

Before adding 1.5 cups of Instant Ocean salt I wanted to confirm that this amount was appropriate. However, I did start the process by adding 3 tsp (equivalent to 1 tbsp) tonight to the "new" water for the 50% water change. I realize this is a very small amount of salt, but I figured it would be much easier to add more to achieve the correct amount as opposed to over salting the tank thereby causing a potential great deal of harm.

I look forward to your advise on this matter, and thank you once again for your continued help on improving Audi's health situation.

Best Regards,
J. Gregory