The Puffer Forum

I feel like Mr Bean, juggling equipment and running up and down the garden trying not to spill buckets of water over myself.
I start off by bunging play sand straight into the tank. I fill it up and the water turns brown...
I change the water a bit and then put the large second hand canister in to run overnight. The water turns green..

...

After a couple of days of effort, mostly cleaning, my second hand tank is acceptable and my three F8s have been transferred. The tank, which is somewhere in between 180-200L, is running with two 100 watt heaters which are keeping the temperature at 23 degrees. I can't remember the spec of the two canister filters I have in there but I will find out and post that tomorrow if anyone is interested.

My water is still a little bit green with algae but as far as I understand that is harmless. I have measured out the marine salt to make it roughly SG 1.007. The hydrometer I have starts reading at 1.017 and the needle has not taken off from the pin which is just a little way under that, so I at least know that I haven't drastically overshot it. One of the filters is from the previous tank and some decor has been moved over too. There was still a fair bit of ammonia present, though, on the old tank so that issue isn't solved yet. Any tips of promoting 'natural' bacterial growth?

Yesterday I put a bit of chicken in the tank and they went nuts for it. I fed them a piece of watermelon today and they enjoyed that too. I'm yet to get some shelled creatures for them to wear their teeth on.

My puffers seem the same as normal, exploring, eating fine, getting on with each other. I haven't had issues with territory yet, in fact they often 'slept' in the same area as each other in the last tank - They managed to fit themselves into a little decorative pile of pipes together. If they turn grouchy. they now have plenty of places to hide from each other. They seem happy, and I definitely am so despite the sloppy work it's been a good day .

Any feedback is appreciated.

1.007 is too high for a f8. Plus a jump in salinity of more than 0.002 will kill off any beneficial bacteria in the tank.good size tank for f8 puffers

bertie 83 wrote:1.007 is too high for a f8. Plus a jump in salinity of more than 0.002 will kill off any beneficial bacteria in the tank.good size tank for f8 puffers

Really? I've always heard 1.005-1.008

Hmm... never thought of chicken.

1.003-1.005for a f8

@PP, that article recommends 1.005-1.008 for f8s, and the pufferpedia does too. That confused me too when I first got my f8.

Yeah, I need to change those, sorry.

Blame me for the lower figure range. IME, above 1.005 (say 1.005-1.008) is basically very, very similar to 1.003-1.005, but above that - especially considering hobby errors in measurements, so my logic is that 1.003-1.005 is in all cases I have had equal to 1.005 to 1.008. Given that, I recommend 1.003-1.005 as cheaper and safer (anything above 1.008 you hit transition from FW nitrification bacteria to SW bacteria (risky) and it also costs more.

IME & IMO, the alkalinity or carbonate/bicarbonate hardness is of equal or possibly greater importance for long life is of at least equal and possibly greater importance to F-8s than the salinity. Because of this I urge everyone to use aragonite substrates for f-8s, these are the most soluble and thus provide the most stable alkalinity. Substrate additions will be needed periodically to replace what has dissolved over time. Low density BW alone does not provide sufficient carbonate/bicarbonate to support the needed alkalinity.

HTH

Superb. Thanks for the information. It might be worth telling you too, RTR, that one of my favorite articles on F8's is yours and I have it printed out for reference

What is the effect of pH on F8s?
I have thought about putting in an aragonite substrate but I haven't yet fully grasped the concept of pH and, as such, don't want to judder the tanks chemistry about too much (unless it's totally necessary).

Note: My nitrogen cycle is not yet adequately established. I'm not sure how quickly the bacteria dies but I have been given a hint by a friend who used to manage a fish shop that the cycle may be hindered by excessive water changing in that it may not allow the heterotrophic bacteria to build up. Accordingly, I have not done a water change for a couple of days and am looking out for signs of distress or ill health from the fish to signal the need for one.

Oh, also, I have a PDF copy of a certain expensive book on Puffer fish by a German doctor, if any of you have use for it. It's a scan but it's all legible.

Yes, our very own RTR also made a review and reccomendation of that book here http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article81.html
I hope to get a copy some day, although expensive it looks like a nice piece of literature.

G S P Freak wrote:Yes, our very own RTR also made a review and reccomendation of that book here http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article81.html
I hope to get a copy some day, although expensive it looks like a nice piece of literature.

It is very useful and interesting

If the fish is in the tank and the tank is not yet cycled water changes are essential, do not wait for signs of distress! You should be doing multiple 50% water changes daily. This will not hinder your cycle but will keep the fish alive. Puffers are scaleless fish and are extremely sensitive to water issues.

Hobbyists have a lot of confusion about pH. For fish like F-8, a pH test is at best a hint with little useful data. Hobbyist tend to think that water pH conveys a lot more information than it does in reality. Changes in pH may be highly significant - comparing the pH over a period of time can show you that alkalinity is being lost, used up, which is full normal and natural. But LFS staff and too many hobbyists think yhat boosting the pH is correcting a water problem. This is how folks get in trouble with commercial buffers (mostly phosphate-based). Yes, those solution can amd will temporally raise the pH, but unfortunately they do nothing at all for the carbonate/bicarbonate hardness (i.e., alkalinity), which is very important for fish like the F-8. When carbonate/bicarbonate hardness is used up, it absolutely cannot be replaced with phosphate hardness. Both are important for these fish's metabolism, but neither one can do the other ones job. Trying to judge water change needs by pH is fooling yourself. Phosphates and carbonates must be measured independently. They do very different jobs in the fish's metabolism.

For low brackish water fish such as F-8, you really need a soluble substrate such as aragonite to add carbonate/bicarbonate as needed. If you feed a variety of foods, or locally reared snails and shrimp which have been fed a variety of foods, their phosphate requirements will be met. Remember, you are what your prey eats.

If this is not clear, let me know - it is very, very important. HTH