F8 Upgrade, need some suggestions.

[G S P Freak]

Ok, I plan on upgrading my Figure 8's tank from a measly 10g to a nice 29g because I will be moving out of college dorms into an apartment starting this summer, woo (yeah kind of far away timewise, but I've been thinking about it and want to be prepared). I have a few concerns... will my current filter be enough for the 29g? I have a fluval 305 canister, it gives the 10g a good current and filters nicely, but will it work as good for 29g?... it says it works for up to 70g but that honestly makes me laugh when I see it just keeps the 10g barely perfect. I'm sure it has restricted flow though, I have every cubic inch filled with bio-media for maximum bacterial colony coverage. Should I also include a powehead and keep the current filter, and if so what gph? Im mainly worried about dead spots.
Next major concern is tankmates! Now I've tried some in the past.. and it didnt work out well in the end, but is there any chance with a larger tank I could add some BBGs or some other brackish type fish? Can I possibly add another f8 or would I have aggression problems? My f8 is pretty small, at least 1yr+ old and is only about 2 inches max, but even the biggest ones at the store are tiny babies. Im afraid he'd kill them because they're too small to fend for themselves.
Ok, well I'll leave the floor to you guys now, any suggestions are appreciated, thanks!

[RTR]

Multi-puffer tank need to set with all con-specifics at the same time & age & size. Adding a baby with a near-adult will likely result in the newcomer being harassed or killed.

I don't know that filter, so can't comment.

[Iliveinazoo]

The Fluval 305 should be fine for the 29(US)G giving you over 8x volume turnover per hour. If your flow has slowed down then try cleaning the sponges and filter compartments. If you had Bumblee Gobies do you still have a sponge over the intake as that would clog quickly? If you have completely packed the filter with media then that would also slow flow down greatly which would also affect the life of the motor. By stocking the filter with so much media you might actually be creating anaerobic spots resulting in the opposite of what you are after - a reduced bacteria colony....

[G S P Freak]

@Ilive; Next week when I clean the tank/filter I'll calculate flow rate and snap some pics of my filter media setup. I don't believe it's overly packed, but I could be wrong. A few weeks ago I did my first major cleaning of the tubes though and found that they were crimped at the ends, so I cut them to be larger and flow rate skyrocketed. I have the filter running at about 80% flow (it has adjustable flow rate). I never had a filter intake sponge, my bbgs never had a problem getting sucked up.. the bigger problem was being eaten. My tank is always 0 amm, 0 nitri, and 10 nitrate when I test it, which is about once every month or two. Also fluval's 260GPH figure is their measurement of the filters GPH without any media in it (misleading right?), so I always expect to get less than that.

@RTR; Thats exactly what I was afraid of. If I qurantined the newcomer long enough for him to get large enough in size would that help? I'm not sure if it's plausible though, as I don't know how fast f8s grow. But then my original f8 would be used to his new tank by then... dangit. I didn't wanna put him in a 29g by himself (tank will look pretty empty), but seeing how my options are working out I seem to have no choice.

Also I think I will add a HOB filter in addition to the fluval 305 for extra filtration and more importantly extra current. I also need to get another one for the pea puffer, as she will be inheriting the f8's 10g. Finally an excuse to try out some aquaclears .

[Iliveinazoo]

That's a bit naughty stating flow without media. I've got a 305 and most of the Bbg's we got were sucked up the 1st night - they were tiny though!

[JRC3]

A 304 is perfect for a 29g. I've had a 404 on my F8's 46g then 55g for a few years. I wouldn't add a HOB because the BBGs don't like tons of current.

In my 404 filters I run pre-filter media in the first basket. In other filters I run a layer before the sponge media. I've noticed a very significant difference in how long it takes for the sponge media to get all mulmed up. I never would've bought this media to try but I got a ton of it in a CL deal and am glad I did.

[G S P Freak]

Interesting, I'll definitely check it out.
I'm wondering if anyone here got their f8 when it was small and if so how long did it take for it to reach full adult size? My f8 is over a year old and seems much smaller than other adult f8s I see online. I attached a pic of him next to a standard size RX bottle for reference. Is he stunted? he hasnt grown much since I got him, but he was the largest f8 I saw in the tank.

[JRC3]

My first/original F8 was/is full grown and never grew any more. He's as big as any online pic. Two years ago I adopted 3 juvis(1.5-2") from this forum and wound up keeping one in a 15g. I moved him to a 46g with some mollies and he showed a noticible growth spurt. My guess is once you introduce yours to a 29g things will change. Also, BBG conflict will neutralize. A 10g offered little comfort zone and stimulation so he wants to taste everything and was just frustrated.

Good luck on the 29g and you and your f8 will bo so much happier.

How do you plan on mivxng the extra BW?

And,again, use only the 305.

[bertie 83]

I agree, growth will likely accelerate once in the 29g. Don't worry about the tank looking empty, any tank with an active puffer in will be bursting at the seams with personality

[G S P Freak]

I figured that much on a growth spurt, just wondered though as I cannot find anything on their growth rate; for how long they can live he might not even be close to full grown yet, idk lol :d. I'll start out with only the 305 and see how it works out, and I'll probably buy a few bbgs and seen how it works out too ( I also have hopes more tank = less bbg tasting.
Good question about the water changes, ATM I use a 5g bucket, but that's not gonna cut it for 29g obviously. I was thinking I getting a 25g tub from Walmart, but I'm unsure if it's safe plastic. At $5, it seem too good to be true, and I know some plastics (particularly cheap ones) can be poisonous.

[Pufferpunk]

RTR has had a few approaching their 20s. They are slow growers.

[RTR]

OK, mentor time to check in with an educational message to hobbyists/consumers:

All flow rates on filters and other water moving devices are rated at zero head (= no difference in intake and output level) and zero turbulence from media, which means no media at all, nor any tubing other than the flow meter intake itself. That can and usually does mean that if the media hosing is separate from the motor-impeller housing, the media container is also not present. That boils down to the rated flow being the absolute maximum possible from the drive alone. That aso means that it never is realistic in actual use. Any and all media, tubing, etc. will reduce the through-put actually achieved in use. It also means that any clogging of media will further reduce the flow. In-use maximum flow has to be determined empirically, by trial and error measurement. It is always significantly lower than the rated volumes.

Also, different filer types have inherently different efficiencies. Canisters can be significantly more efficient than HOBs and both are different from UGs or RFUGs. That does not mean that any given type is inherently "better" than others, just that each format has its own strengths and weaknesses. Efficiency is commonly valuable mainly in power cost per water volume filtered to a given level. Ease of use is an equally important factor in most hobby equipment.

HTH

[RTR]

I played a lot w/F-8s. They are great favorites of mine and small enough to ease some testing. I measure age from when I purche a non-breedable fish, so that is always my zero-date for F-8s. All were immature at purchase, 1/2 inch max total length, QT in mature 4-foot tanks (33XL, 40L, or 55 US gal. tanks with max 1 fish per foot or ten US. of tank capacity. All were adapted to light BW (SG 1.003-1.005) in QT ~30 days, the moved to individual housing in 20longs with clear view of other F-8s in adjacent tanks. The age test group averaged ~15+ years with the youngest dying at well over 12 years in my care, the oldest well over 17 years in my care. Their water was shared among 2-8 tanks, all in the same trial, not individually filtered so water was always shared by the group. Changes were 50% weekly.

I suspect that I could do it a bit better now, but the spread should still be comparable. These are not short-lived fish in captivity. This figure is comparable to non-breeding Cichlids in the same size range, but those might live longer. I do think that being able to see but not physically interact directly with con-specific affects activity levels.

HTH

[JRC3]

Good question about the water changes, ATM I use a 5g bucket, but that's not gonna cut it for 29g obviously. I was thinking I getting a 25g tub from Walmart, but I'm unsure if it's safe plastic. At $5, it seem too good to be true, and I know some plastics (particularly cheap ones) can be poisonous.

If you can spend the extra now, you can get a 20g Big Brute trashcan for $20 at Home Depot. A $15 pond pump from Harbor Freight and a heater will mean that you can pump you aged water directly to the tank. A few 1/2" PVC fittings and tubing and you can hang the fill/drain hose directly on the rim of the tank and keep your hands free to do other things. Look around and you can find a 25% coupon for Harbore Freight. If you think you might go to a bigger tank sometime in the future it might be better just to go ahead and buy the 32g trash can.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubbermaid-C ... owYyVJojGg
http://www.harborfreight.com/264-gph-su ... 68395.html
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk16 ... filler.jpg

[RTR]

Plastic containers need to be food-safe to be used for fish. JRC3's advice (above) is good,