The Puffer Forum

Now I am having second thoughts on the marine puffer I will be getting which brings up a few questions on more than one subject.

I was leaning towards a GSP but am now thinking I'd like to get a species of Toby puffer instead, either...

Canthigaster jactator
Canthigaster bennetti
Canthigaster solandri
or (leaning more here) Canthigaster papua.

Maybe a Canthigaster valentini but I'm preferring the looks of the ones above. Any experience with one or more of the above I'd appreciate hearing about it.

I've read what info in available here and done some googling as well but it doesn't seem like I'm finding a whole lot of information. I know it will still be a gamble with corals and any inverts in terms of a CUC. Also, variants in temperaments between individual puffers. Guess what I'm more confused about is diet, how that would vary from a GSP. I know a lot of the same items would still be on the menu, like the different types of seafood (clam, shrimp, etc.) I've read more about vegetation as part of the diet for Toby puffers, like seaweed sheets and such I assume? I also haven't read as much with snails and Toby puffers, are snails a part of a Toby puffers diet? I have a tank that I had set up for breeding Ramshorn snails (which they are doing) for the GSP but am assuming this isn't appropriate for marine puffers? Basically any more insight on a varied diet would be appreciated.

Now one more issue was brought up with my mind being changed. I have a 60 gallon tank (75lbs of rock) that is only housing a starry blenny at the moment. I want to do a pair of ocellaris clowns (one black one orange) and I know my LFS will be able to get them for me. Now, does that leave me stocked or would I be okay adding one or two more fish?

I was thinking like a type of wrasse or similar that would eat up leftovers from the puffers diet (especially if the CUC doesn't last) and to have a fish that will be out swimming more. In terms of a fish that would be out swimming in the open, instead of the wrasse, I like the Kaudern's Cardinal (Pterapogon kauderni) but am not too familiar with this fish as I haven't read up on it more. I'm also thinking its fins could be an issue and the puffer would be likely to pick at them. I'm not sure if it would get along with the puffer, blenny, and clowns or if it is a fish that likes to be in pairs or more as this would obviously limit me with the stocking and tank size. If I was to do like the wrasse (on top of the puffer, blenny, clowns) if I could do another small bottom dwelling fish I was thinking of a goby of sorts.

Also, in terms of CUC and keeping the top of the sandbed cleaner, would a cucumber be appropriate? Any other CUC that may be safe with a Toby? I currently have snails and hermits.

I do plan to add corals, know this will be a gamble, but may help with the decision of the puffer. I will also be getting a protein skimmer at the end of the month that is rated for up to 100 gallons, I believe it is.

I hope all of this makes sense, if not I'll be happy to clarify. I just have many questions now that I have changed my mind on the main fish (puffer).

Thanks for any help!

No do a GSP! They have cuter faces!

sgtmyers88 wrote:No do a GSP! They have cuter faces!

Haha, I do have to agree with you there in a way. In terms of the body shape I like the more rounded look versus the sharpnoses/tobies. I do like the colors on a lot of the tobies though.

I wish I had a large enough tank to get a dogface. After seeing so many pictures of them I am definitely 'smitten'. But I know it will be a while before I would have the room and finances for a tank setup large enough. Hopefully one day though!

I had just been having second thoughts and wanted to find out more about the toby varieties. Seems they would be more likely to be less aggressive, smaller, more colorful (even though GSP has a cuter face), and would be easier to house with tankmates than a GSP. I know it will vary with each individual puffer so its hard to say.

Such a hard decision!

Think about corals dead last. You'll need RO/DI, Reef test kits, expensive lights, and borrow PAR meter if you can't buy one. After you buy all of that and the corals, you will have to pray that your puffer won't turn every coral into an expensive meal.

You are better off with less fish in your system. 1 toby with 2 clowns is enough IMO. Any toby if fine actually. I like to go to the LFS and see the puffer. Some puffers I connect with more than others.

You'll change your mind a hundred times before coming to a decision. Black friday ended my decision making after I bought RO/DI unit and reef test kits. No more ceylon for me.

Lol yea you will end up killing your puffer when you come home and only several hundred dollars worth of corals are eaten... your puffer might not care how much you paid or how pretty they are. He uses the taste test. If its nasty he may leave it alone. But whos to say whats nasty to them. Probably nothing they can rip x)

Terrance wrote:Think about corals dead last. You'll need RO/DI, Reef test kits, expensive lights, and borrow PAR meter if you can't buy one. After you buy all of that and the corals, you will have to pray that your puffer won't turn every coral into an expensive meal.

You are better off with less fish in your system. 1 toby with 2 clowns is enough IMO. Any toby if fine actually. I like to go to the LFS and see the puffer. Some puffers I connect with more than others.

You'll change your mind a hundred times before coming to a decision. Black friday ended my decision making after I bought RO/DI unit and reef test kits. No more ceylon for me.

The starry blenny is already in the tank, and the only fish in the tank. I added him first based on temperament compared to the other fish I planned on adding. Obviously the puffer last (whichever it may be), but I was thinking the clowns next. I have no problem not being able to add anymore than you mentioned, though the blenny is already there. I just thought that if I had the space a wrasse could be beneficial in eating what the puffer will miss, being messy eaters and all.

I really wanted to do corals next, especially before adding a puffer. It just seems pretty bare and I know that decor/broken lines of sight can be pretty important in terms of fish getting along.

I will also be getting an RO/DI filter at the end of the month, rated 50 gpd. I didn't mention because I wasn't too concerned with the corals in this post.
I do intend on making a post before I add corals but it will be another month or so before I even add any corals.

I already have a lighting system, had it maybe a month now. Its a four bulb fixture with two 54w 10k bulbs and two 54w actinic bulbs. I have no intention of getting any corals that will require high lighting like SPS. I'm just wanting to do mushrooms, zoas, and similar. I would also like and LPS or two, definitely want a frogspawn. I know corals will be a gamble with a puffer though.

Unfortunately I won't even be able to see the puffer in person before purchasing. The one LFS that I can order from does not keep saltwater tanks so I would be picking up the puffer as soon as it arrived. They also don't have much of a selection. There is one other LFS that keeps saltwater tanks but a very limited selection. I've only seen one puffer in all the times I've been there and it was a dogface. I've spoken to them about ordering but they seemed even more limited than the other store. And honestly I prefer the other store, seemed more knowledgeable in many aspects, at least when it comes to saltwater.

I've definitely realized I'll be changing my mind quite a few times. I was just set on a GSP for a while and didn't really expect it. Are corals why you're not keeping a ceylon?

defool89 wrote:Lol yea you will end up killing your puffer when you come home and only several hundred dollars worth of corals are eaten... your puffer might not care how much you paid or how pretty they are. He uses the taste test. If its nasty he may leave it alone. But whos to say whats nasty to them. Probably nothing they can rip x)

Lol. No I would never do that, though I'm sure I'd be upset. I have no intention of spending that much on corals. I believe I know where I'll be ordering the corals I want from and it will only run me about $100 with shipping. I'm not getting any expensive corals and will get frags where I can.

You can add more fish if you wish. I'm not even sure about the bioload or what is compatible/non-compatible for the other fish. Its just raising the probability of water quality issues that causes bad algae or problems with coral growth, which can be countered with skimmer and growing macroalgae. If you ever start having problems, then you'd probably take out a fish or two. Corals do add a splash of color and presents another challenge for hobbyist, so its understandable to want a try a few corals. IMO get all your fish together and then get corals 3-6 months after everyone is happy and your water parameters are stable. It gives you more time to research carefully and plan each move precisely (saves money).

What type of fixture is the light (T8, T5, ect.)? Before you get corals, test the PAR levels to see if your lights are good enough.

I've been searching for a ceylon for over 1 years. They are difficult to find in the U.S. (or maybe its just in my area). Haven't found or seen one yet in store or online, so I'm going with my second option: Mixed reef.

I have kept several different tobies. It's really been hit or miss with them. Sometimes they'd be good for months & then I'd find them picking at corals. The Valentini seems to be the best behaved. I have this one in with softies, SPS & LPS & he's being a very good boy. So far...

Terrance wrote:You can add more fish if you wish. I'm not even sure about the bioload or what is compatible/non-compatible for the other fish. Its just raising the probability of water quality issues that causes bad algae or problems with coral growth, which can be countered with skimmer and growing macroalgae. If you ever start having problems, then you'd probably take out a fish or two. Corals do add a splash of color and presents another challenge for hobbyist, so its understandable to want a try a few corals. IMO get all your fish together and then get corals 3-6 months after everyone is happy and your water parameters are stable. It gives you more time to research carefully and plan each move precisely (saves money).

What type of fixture is the light (T8, T5, ect.)? Before you get corals, test the PAR levels to see if your lights are good enough.

I've been searching for a ceylon for over 1 years. They are difficult to find in the U.S. (or maybe its just in my area). Haven't found or seen one yet in store or online, so I'm going with my second option: Mixed reef.

Sorry, the light is T5HO. I don't know how I missed that.

I'm not going to add more fish just because I want them. I mean what fish I get will be because they are what I want but I in no means what to overstock and cause issues with water quality. That is why I am asking here before I go and stock the tank and find out it is overstocked. I certainly don't want to cause any harm to the corals or have any issues with algae because of overstocking and water quality issues.

I will also add each fish with plenty of time in between, to give bacteria a chance to catch up and watch for any aggression or similar issues.

I don't have a problem waiting to add corals if its whats best ( I do hate seeing the tank looking so bare though lol, I just thought it might would help in some a few ways in terms of my stocking choices. Like giving the fish more to investigate, move around, broken lines of sight, etc. and also that maybe if the coral was in before the puffer he/she may be less likely to mess with the coral.. Was just a thought. I'm definitely new to this which is why I am here asking questions. I believe I mentioned before, that I am going to make a post regarding coral in some time, when it gets closer to when I would be able to add any. I have been researching what corals I want but second opinions are always great.

Oh okay. I haven't flat out searched for them but I do know that I have not came across even one for sale during my time researching puffers and seeing what is available. Mixed is referring to different types of corals (LPS,SPS, etc) right?

Pufferpunk wrote:I have kept several different tobies. It's really been hit or miss with them. Sometimes they'd be good for months & then I'd find them picking at corals. The Valentini seems to be the best behaved. I have this one in with softies, SPS & LPS & he's being a very good boy. So far...

Thank you for the reply.

Did you move the puffers into a different tank when they became an issue with corals? And how long has the valentini been a good boy?
From what I've read I did seem to come across more with people having luck with the Valentini but of course a hit or a miss and same with other tobies as well.

It will be a couple months I believe before the puffer will be added since it will be last but I want to be sure of which one I do want and learn what I can ahead of time.

Oh and one more question. Could you give me examples of sorts of what the tobies diets have been like?

My opinion at this point about corals is, I wouldn't stress that much about them. Just get hardier species. I was lucky to get frags off someone on CL and he told me there are very hardy, and so far all is fine. I think puffers are more curiousm than actually want to eat them. I had my GSP nip my green candy cane/trumpet coral, once, and never bothered it again. That was when I put it in the tank. I bought a new button coral, and they have some type of toxin, that the lfs said won't kill the puffer if he bites it, but it won't taste good. All mine have growth and are doing well. Coral is so cool and beautiful and in some ways is more fun that keeping the fish

Gwen

Yes, the Val & Bluespot were both moved into a softie tank, when they started picking at my LPS.

PufferMe! wrote:My opinion at this point about corals is, I wouldn't stress that much about them. Just get hardier species. I was lucky to get frags off someone on CL and he told me there are very hardy, and so far all is fine. I think puffers are more curiousm than actually want to eat them. I had my GSP nip my green candy cane/trumpet coral, once, and never bothered it again. That was when I put it in the tank. I bought a new button coral, and they have some type of toxin, that the lfs said won't kill the puffer if he bites it, but it won't taste good. All mine have growth and are doing well. Coral is so cool and beautiful and in some ways is more fun that keeping the fish

Gwen

I'm not really stressing about them. I mean I'm making sure I do what research I can before I even get any corals and make sure everything is in order with the tank before I do.

I had forgot about that but nibbling/tasting seemed common with what reading I've done (more so since I've began looking into toby puffers) even when the puffer didn't resort to eating or tearing apart the coral. If puffer I decide on does mess with the corals heres to hoping its just a nibble.

Pufferpunk wrote:Yes, the Val & Bluespot were both moved into a softie tank, when they started picking at my LPS.

Thanks. Since I intend on just one LPS (frogspawn at that so maybe it'll be safe) and then mushrooms, zoas maybe it won't be an issue.

Guess I'll continue to research until I'm ready for the puffer before I decide 100% on which one.

Sometimes life is like playing basketball..if you over think your shot you're gonna miss. Just shoot and follow through and you may score the winning shot.

As far as Toby puffers I was leaning towards the Canthigaster papua because it was the toby I was most interested in that was in stock online. I had seen Canthigaster bennetti, which I'd say first struck me out of the tobies, listed on a couple sites but not in stock. However, I just checked and they have them in stock from saltwaterfish.com and they're only $15. I was pretty excited to see that but still a bit of an issue. I did email them about the fish because I am definitely interested in buying one but I hadn't planned on adding any puffer to my tank for another month or so. I asked about the availability and such but am not sure what sort of reply I will receive. I know I can't be given in certain kind of answer but am hoping maybe I can get some sort of response in terms of the likelihood of it being in stock then or again soon after. Just not sure how often they are in stock, if they're a little more rare or something maybe.

I really with I could go ahead and get him but I definitely want the puffer to be the last in the tank. I do have a 10 gallon tank that is empty now. I am wondering if it would be suitable for him/her for a few weeks?

Why for a few weeks?